Stive Pesley Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 15 hours ago, LesterRam said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35308022 how much has your energy price dropped ? Indeed - the big "UK" power companies are laughing, having spent the last 5 years locking everyone into fixed price deals by raising their tarrifs at every upward twitch of the oil price and then telling us we're being "protected" against that if we lock in to a long term tarriff.. They make outrageous profts anyway - maybe the hedge for us is to buy shares in them now, and when they announce their next financial results and they've made bazillions we can sell sell sell their shares at a profit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 2 hours ago, StivePesley said: Indeed - the big "UK" power companies are laughing, having spent the last 5 years locking everyone into fixed price deals by raising their tarrifs at every upward twitch of the oil price and then telling us we're being "protected" against that if we lock in to a long term tarriff.. They make outrageous profts anyway - maybe the hedge for us is to buy shares in them now, and when they announce their next financial results and they've made bazillions we can sell sell sell their shares at a profit? saying that I pay more for my water per annum than both electric and gas combined, I wouldn't mind but I live 100 yds from the ******* reservoir, ask yourself when are the government going to clamp down on utilities, answer never!! FTSE sliding once again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 53 minutes ago, LesterRam said: saying that I pay more for my water per annum than both electric and gas combined, Really?? Are you on a meter? My electric and gas is about a grand a year. Pretty sure my water rates aren't that much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, StivePesley said: Really?? Are you on a meter? My electric and gas is about a grand a year. Pretty sure my water rates aren't that much yeah my water is metered, I think I am paying for the street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 37 minutes ago, LesterRam said: yeah my water is metered, I think I am paying for the street My gas & Elec is about £1800 a year - which I realise is high, thanks to wife who "likes to be warm" and a hot tub in the garden but my water bill is only about £300. Something sounds fishy if your metered water is as much as your power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Wolfie said: My gas & Elec is about £1800 a year - which I realise is high, thanks to wife who "likes to be warm" and a hot tub in the garden but my water bill is only about £300. Something sounds fishy if your metered water is as much as your power. yeah I paid £1200 for my water last year, but I didn't think anything of it until lately because the previous year I lived in Malta and the water is very expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 10 minutes ago, LesterRam said: yeah I paid £1200 for my water last year, but I didn't think anything of it until lately because the previous year I lived in Malta and the water is very expensive. Wow that's a lot. Definitely worth having it checked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 That can't be right Lester! You sure you've not got a leak? Have a bang on this online calculator http://www.ccwater.org.uk/watermetercalculator/ Mine comes out as being slighly more expensive if I switched to a meter but is still only £350 ish quid. That's in a house of 3 adults and 1 kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 4 minutes ago, StivePesley said: That can't be right Lester! You sure you've not got a leak? Have a bang on this online calculator http://www.ccwater.org.uk/watermetercalculator/ Mine comes out as being slighly more expensive if I switched to a meter but is still only £350 ish quid. That's in a house of 3 adults and 1 kid well mate this house would never pass with the environmental health, the landlady is a horrid person, I have plumbed in the kitchen because I was fed up of contacting the agent, the bath leaks badly and it took 10 months to put a rail up the stairs !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Energy companies are a cartel, never head an acceptable reason as to why they can't pass oil/gas declines onto the consumer as quickly as they do price rises. Why not give consumers a floating tariff based on commodity futures markets? In other news, Iran sanctions lifted today. More crude coming to market. FTSE broke August lows on Friday which was a technical support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Just floating an idea out here: Is there any reason to think that America would actually want the price of oil to collapse? It would shift power away from the Gulf states and Russia and stop them holding other countries to ransom. Probably realise that the Middle East is a lost cause so they've made up with Iran and they're worried Saudi Arabia and their poisonous ideology is bad news for America. Found this article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/11768136/Saudi-Arabia-may-go-broke-before-the-US-oil-industry-buckles.html Explains why America and UK is going strong into fracking exploration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mills Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Shang said: Just floating an idea out here: Is there any reason to think that America would actually want the price of oil to collapse? It would shift power away from the Gulf states and Russia and stop them holding other countries to ransom. Probably realise that the Middle East is a lost cause so they've made up with Iran and they're worried Saudi Arabia and their poisonous ideology is bad news for America. Found this article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/11768136/Saudi-Arabia-may-go-broke-before-the-US-oil-industry-buckles.html Explains why America and UK is going strong into fracking exploration. There are definitely positives to oil prices plummeting. Most industries are oil consumers, not oil producers meaning costs for the majority of industries should fall. Transportation prices, construction, farming etc you would all expect to benefit from a low oil price. Oil prices are destined to fall as more sustainable energy sources become the norm but it's certainly not what was expected! I'd say long term low oil prices are of benefit to the US but some industries will definitely be taking a big hit for example producers of drilling equipment. A big hit like this also means job losses which is bad for the US economy, so I'd say there isn't really a reason that the US would have wanted such a rapid decline in oil prices but certainly youo could argue that a slow and steady decrease would have been beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Shang said: Just floating an idea out here: Is there any reason to think that America would actually want the price of oil to collapse? It would shift power away from the Gulf states and Russia and stop them holding other countries to ransom. Probably realise that the Middle East is a lost cause so they've made up with Iran and they're worried Saudi Arabia and their poisonous ideology is bad news for America. Found this article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/11768136/Saudi-Arabia-may-go-broke-before-the-US-oil-industry-buckles.html Explains why America and UK is going strong into fracking exploration. No I don't think so, they are desperate for inflation and a collapsing oil price doesn't help them. America produces more oil than it consumes so on balance a higher price (with the jobs engine) is more beneficial overall to the States than a lower price. Saudi Aramco is the most valuable company in the world. The Saudi Oil Minister has already suggested a partial privatization in a public offering (similar to Royal Mail). The Saudis are in a very tight spot and the dollar peg may go but they still have some ammunition IMO. I do think the U.S is thawing relations with Iran simply because Saudi Arabia's use to them is expiring. Fracking in the U.K is not feasible at these prices, nor is new fracking in the U.S.A. The cost of drilling/fracking is front-ended (exploration, acquisitions, licenses, drilling), that is why American production has NOT tailed off. Put simply, once the debt has been issued, investment made and the fracking undertaken, the cost to extract a barrel is low thereafter. So they can still make money on every barrel extracted (so it makes sense to still produce) but critically as the price drops lower it is NOT enough to service the front-loaded debt. The frackers going bankrupt is not therefore significant (IMO) to supply, its just an opportunity for other companies to buy the same assets cents on the dollar without the debt and continue production as nothing as happened. The debt just goes bad, the infrastructure is still in place. At the moment, we'd not even be able to justify the infrastructure and development costs in the U.K in an oil price environment like now (people who work in the industry can correct me if mistaken), perhaps in a $100/bbl market it make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 31 minutes ago, Chris Mills said: There are definitely positives to oil prices plummeting. Most industries are oil consumers, not oil producers meaning costs for the majority of industries should fall. Transportation prices, construction, farming etc you would all expect to benefit from a low oil price. Oil prices are destined to fall as more sustainable energy sources become the norm but it's certainly not what was expected! I'd say long term low oil prices are of benefit to the US but some industries will definitely be taking a big hit for example producers of drilling equipment. A big hit like this also means job losses which is bad for the US economy, so I'd say there isn't really a reason that the US would have wanted such a rapid decline in oil prices but certainly youo could argue that a slow and steady decrease would have been beneficial. Normally you'd be right, except the economy has been turned on its head. Transportation stocks are the worst performing sector in the U.S. Normally one would think a low oil price would mean soaring profits for them. The low oil price is just the headline, the real story is we have a demand sapped global "real" economy. Deflationary expectations in the real economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 And now they are reporting that the richest 1% have as much as wealth as the remaining 99% put together. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35339475 Surely this is another sign that the capitalism game is nearly over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Also the richest 62 people have a wealth equivalent to the poorest 3.6 billion people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I' seem to remember reading somewhere not long ago that, removing the top 2-3% showed that the gap between everyone else had narrowed. I may have dreamt that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 2 hours ago, Wolfie said: I' seem to remember reading somewhere not long ago that, removing the top 2-3% showed that the gap between everyone else had narrowed. I may have dreamt that. Wouldn't surprise me, the end-game of this is that one person/family will have most of the wealth, the money moves up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 8 hours ago, StivePesley said: And now they are reporting that the richest 1% have as much as wealth as the remaining 99% put together. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35339475 Surely this is another sign that the capitalism game is nearly over. It is not capitalism though! Capitalism is when banks are allowed to fail ("too big to fail" doesn't exist in a model of capitalism) and interest rates aren't manipulated to prop up failing banks or businesses or to prop up a housing market. This is crony capitalism and it shouldn't be confused with free market capitalism IMO. The government and banking sector have hijacked money creation to suit themselves, that is what people should be angry about. Basically we had socialism for the rich in 08/09. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zag zig Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Jamie Dimon, you have to laugh else you would... The Morgue at least true to form Quote "To the extent we can responsibly support clients, we're going to. And if we lose a little bit more money because of it, so be it," Dimon said. At least we know where oil is heading, unless this is another typical JPM we tell you this, you believe it, we do something else indicator. http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/18/investing/oil-crash-wall-street-banks-jpmorgan/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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