Why Why Why Weimann

[David]

I'm with you Sage, as I can look beyond the typical fan view of 'oh he's a good player let's bring him in alongside Bent. They're both going to guarantee us 30 goals this season.'

Guys and girls. football doesn't work like that. If the players don't fit system, regardless of how good they are (Zlatan I'm talking to you!) then they won't perform to expectations.

Weimann is best through the middle. Villa fans told us this. Why have we signed him? Because our rookie recruitment team saw him as a 'good player' and thought that he could fit in regardless of the team's best style of play.

He's not a winger. We're literally trying to accomodate him, and any change of formation to do so will affect our team in a negative way. Just like Darren Bent.

It's laughable how those of you out there don't quite grasp that players can only perform to thier best abilities in certain systems. Look at the difference between Ince's performances for Derby and Forest. You all knew this...

So why did you think Wiemann, Bent, Ince and Martin would get is about 60 goals this season? Why? Would you assume 11 Charlie Austins would score over 100 Championship goals?

Weimann is a good player, I have no doubts about that. But he's not the player we needed, not in the slightest. His signings smacks of that ametuer thought process of 'he's a good player, get him in'...

And when he arrives 'OK, now we've got him, where the hell are we going to play him?'

 

 

Bris, just wondering as I do, you call our recruitment team rookie, can I ask what your CV looks like with regards to player recruitment in professional football? to make a statement like that I'm expecting you have quite a few achievements, if not, your post is kind of laughable. Sorry.

[jono]

He is a good player with a good pedigree. Reasonably youthful. Quick, full of energy and can score goals. He was reasonably priced on top of that. It isn't a question of fitting him into a rigid system it is about having a squad of players with flexible talent. Perhaps he isn't the ideal buy but you can't get dreamboat players out of a hat. We have a hand of cards .. I suggest with Weiman we improved our hand and a modest cost.

[David]

He was reasonably priced on top of that. It isn't a question of fitting him into a rigid system it is about having a squad of players with flexible talent. 

Exactly.

Some people can't look beyond 4-3-3 and don't like having different options at our disposal like Weimann and Bent.

[sage]

Hello Mostyn Mk2 is back,

First of all can I apologise for posting this critique of Weimann's signing too early...I was going out this morning and didn't have time to explain my reasoning properly.

First of all a word for my critics.

This isn't an attack on Clement, We signed Weimann before Clement came. A previous thread discussed the potential problems of Derby signings players whilst in the process of changing managers. I note that some posters who thought this may be an issue have been critical of the OP in this thread. I would also not that some posters critical in this thread expressed doubts when we were thinking of signing him. I would also point out that a fellow from the Villa forum visited us and warned us of many of the foibles I have pointed out. Not a winger, disappears from games etc. 

Now to Mr Weimann's attributes. He has some pace. Not electric pace but some pace. Have you seen him clearly outpace a defender yet. Pre-season or early season. He may have but I certainly don't recall it. His touch is ok. Nothing sparkling. Have you seen him beat a man? He turned someone who was rushing him at Northampton and I have a vague memory of evading a challenge v Villareal. So not a dribbler. Positional sense and runs. He seems reluctant to play down the touchline and offer width. The main run he seems to make is off the shoulder of the full back for a ball behind. This can be a good run, but seems his only tactic and he is prone to do this when Thorne is 30 yards away from him and he only has 20 yards to run into. Can he finish? He has a goal average of 1 in 7, admittedly at a higher level. This suggests he can score goals but is unlikely to suddenly score 20+ goals even if played up front.

Now to how he fits in at Derby. We appear to have 3 main formations. Plan A being 4-3-3, Plan B being 4-2-3-1 and Plan C being the 4-4-2 diamond. He absolutely doesn't fit in A. He fits into Plan B better but wouldn't excel. Plan C suits him (and Russell) but paying £2m for someone we won't get the best of unless it's in our 3rd choice formation. Ince's role is to tuck in on his left foot. This would suggest an ideal left winger would go down the outside and put a cross in now and then.

I know this comes early in his time with us but I have seen him play for us 7 times and never seen him perform above a 6/10. If you were scouting a player and watched him 7 times to this effect, you'd go look at someone else and yes I'd take the £2m if someone offered it. I really hope I'm wrong and would love him to play well for us and provide goals and assists but I can't see it.

The good news is if he scores tonight you get the double joy of a Derby goal and the chance to tell me i'm an idiot.             

[TheDeadlySaul]

Hello Mostyn Mk2 is back,

First of all can I apologise for posting this critique of Weimann's signing too early...I was going out this morning and didn't have time to explain my reasoning properly.

First of all a word for my critics.

This isn't an attack on Clement, We signed Weimann before Clement came. A previous thread discussed the potential problems of Derby signings players whilst in the process of changing managers. I note that some posters who thought this may be an issue have been critical of the OP in this thread. I would also not that some posters critical in this thread expressed doubts when we were thinking of signing him. I would also point out that a fellow from the Villa forum visited us and warned us of many of the foibles I have pointed out. Not a winger, disappears from games etc. 

Now to Mr Weimann's attributes. He has some pace. Not electric pace but some pace. Have you seen him clearly outpace a defender yet. Pre-season or early season. He may have but I certainly don't recall it. His touch is ok. Nothing sparkling. Have you seen him beat a man? He turned someone who was rushing him at Northampton and I have a vague memory of evading a challenge v Villareal. So not a dribbler. Positional sense and runs. He seems reluctant to play down the touchline and offer width. The main run he seems to make is off the shoulder of the full back for a ball behind. This can be a good run, but seems his only tactic and he is prone to do this when Thorne is 30 yards away from him and he only has 20 yards to run into. Can he finish? He has a goal average of 1 in 7, admittedly at a higher level. This suggests he can score goals but is unlikely to suddenly score 20+ goals even if played up front.

Now to how he fits in at Derby. We appear to have 3 main formations. Plan A being 4-3-3, Plan B being 4-2-3-1 and Plan C being the 4-4-2 diamond. He absolutely doesn't fit in A. He fits into Plan B better but wouldn't excel. Plan C suits him (and Russell) but paying £2m for someone we won't get the best of unless it's in our 3rd choice formation. Ince's role is to tuck in on his left foot. This would suggest an ideal left winger would go down the outside and put a cross in now and then.

I know this comes early in his time with us but I have seen him play for us 7 times and never seen him perform above a 6/10. If you were scouting a player and watched him 7 times to this effect, you'd go look at someone else and yes I'd take the £2m if someone offered it. I really hope I'm wrong and would love him to play well for us and provide goals and assists but I can't see it.

The good news is if he scores tonight you get the double joy of a Derby goal and the chance to tell me i'm an idiot.             

Mate, he has only started 1 league game for us 

[neil62uk]

I hope he scores a hat trick tonight followed by this thread getting locked.

excellent  reply   like it  

[sage]

I hope he scores a hat trick tonight followed by this thread getting locked.

So do I.

[neil62uk]

So do I.

i hope he scores 4 in first half  @SAGE       ..   and game ends up 6-0  to us  C.O.Y.R   ,  but woud take a 1 - 0  win

[Tombo]

Just checked out his website, he looks far from gormless, I'm with your wife here

We're not married, don't give her any ideas! She might be reading this 

[CheltenhamRam]

He is almost certainly not match fit having been out in the cold mostly af Villa give the guy a break - Villa fansfans, of which I know several ST holders, are very positive about him 

[David]

As you say Sage, 3 main formations and Weimann will fit in perfectly in 2 of those as I would argue he would excel in 4-2-3-1,  play Weimann down the middle, Russell and Ince out wide. 

Signing a player that fits in 2 out of your 3 main formations isn't exactly a rookie move from our recruitment team as has been suggested from our resident expert over in South America.

Come May I would take a bet that Weimann will be right up there for POTY, we've been rocked by injuries, Clement is still getting his ideas across and it's going to take more than 1 start until we see the best of him. Thought he looked quality v Villarreal and so did plenty around me.  

[ronnieronalde]

I'm with you Sage, as I can look beyond the typical fan view of 'oh he's a good player let's bring him in alongside Bent. They're both going to guarantee us 30 goals this season.'

Guys and girls. football doesn't work like that. If the players don't fit system, regardless of how good they are (Zlatan I'm talking to you!) then they won't perform to expectations.

Weimann is best through the middle. Villa fans told us this. Why have we signed him? Because our rookie recruitment team saw him as a 'good player' and thought that he could fit in regardless of the team's best style of play.

He's not a winger. We're literally trying to accomodate him, and any change of formation to do so will affect our team in a negative way. Just like Darren Bent.

It's laughable how those of you out there don't quite grasp that players can only perform to thier best abilities in certain systems. Look at the difference between Ince's performances for Derby and Forest. You all knew this...

So why did you think Wiemann, Bent, Ince and Martin would get is about 60 goals this season? Why? Would you assume 11 Charlie Austins would score over 100 Championship goals?

Weimann is a good player, I have no doubts about that. But he's not the player we needed, not in the slightest. His signings smacks of that ametuer thought process of 'he's a good player, get him in'...

And when he arrives 'OK, now we've got him, where the hell are we going to play him?'

 

 

I'm not sure what's the funniest part of this post.

How patronising you are towards other posters.

or

How you STILL genuinely believe in your own publicity and that you've got this elevated sense of self importance which places you above most other posters football knowledge wise.

It's YOU who keeps pushing the point about number of collective goals, I haven't seen that from anyone else. I've not once read ANYONE on the forum who says a team of 11 charlie austins would get you 100 goals. I've not even read anyone claiming Bent and Weimann would guarantee 30 goals each a season.

You're typically over exaggerating your point again, Come on Bris, play nice.

[Bris Vegas]

Bris, just wondering as I do, you call our recruitment team rookie, can I ask what your CV looks like with regards to player recruitment in professional football? to make a statement like that I'm expecting you have quite a few achievements, if not, your post is kind of laughable. Sorry.

Give me the opportunity to be on the recruitment team and I'd supply Clement with a list of realistic targets more capable of promotion than the current squad put together.

I can call them rookies, because look at their signings over the past 12 months. A good number have been poor and above all clueless. The Bent signing? It's nonsensical.

I'm still unaware whether McClaren identified the likes of Shotton, Warnock etc. or whether it was our recruitment team. Bent and Weimann were brought in before Clement weren't they?

I'd honestly love to be involved in football in identifying players, working with systems, identifying weaknesses in opposition etc. Just give me the chance...

 

[Bris Vegas]

I'm not sure what's the funniest part of this post.

How patronising you are towards other posters.

or

How you STILL genuinely believe in your own publicity and that you've got this elevated sense of self importance which places you above most other posters football knowledge wise.

It's YOU who keeps pushing the point about number of collective goals, I haven't seen that from anyone else. I've not once read ANYONE on the forum who says a team of 11 charlie austins would get you 100 goals. I've not even read anyone claiming Bent and Weimann would guarantee 30 goals each a season.

You're typically over exaggerating your point again, Come on Bris, play nice.

You must have missed the Sky Bet thread on Derby specials and the Darren Bent transfer thread. Go take a look, it's a nice read. I used the Charlie Austin example of displaying the point behind this false logic.

I'm not patronising towards other posters. I stuck my neck on the line regarding a few issues like Dawkins and Bent and my posts have been labelled ridiculous for it.

Instead of sniping comments like 'ridiculous post, rubbish' etc. Why don't we just debate the point. That's all I and Sage and other have ever done. We've always debated, which is far more than some of the responses received.

Nice of you to try and get a dig in though, wherever possible eh Ronnie.

[sage]

As you say Sage, 3 main formations and Weimann will fit in perfectly in 2 of those as I would argue he would excel in 4-2-3-1,  play Weimann down the middle, Russell and Ince out wide. 

Signing a player that fits in 2 out of your 3 main formations isn't exactly a rookie move from our recruitment team as has been suggested from our resident expert over in South America.

Come May I would take a bet that Weimann will be right up there for POTY, we've been rocked by injuries, Clement is still getting his ideas across and it's going to take more than 1 start until we see the best of him. Thought he looked quality v Villarreal and so did plenty around me.  

I'll take that bet. I'm saying he won't be in the top 2. We only usually announce first and second these days. £50?

[Mostyn6]

they imitation is a form of flattery!

Whilst I disagree with your opinion on Weimann, my disagreement is based upon a) us not having established formation and tactics, meaning there is plenty of time for AW to force his way in, and b) it being so early and him having so few minutes on the pitch competitively. 

Fair play on the explanation though. Respect due...

[Tombo]

Give me the opportunity to be on the recruitment team and I'd supply Clement with a list of realistic targets more capable of promotion than the current squad put together.

You needn't say anymore, this is the most ridiculous thing that I've ever seen posted on dcfcfans. And I saw AdamRusty's German CB rumours. I even saw "Peace won't accept anything less than £8m for Thorne and you're dreaming if you think otherwise".

THE most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on this forum.

[Bris Vegas]

You needn't say anymore, this is the most ridiculous thing that I've ever seen posted on dcfcfans. And I saw AdamRusty's German CB rumours. I even saw "Peace won't accept anything less than £8m for Thorne and you're dreaming if you think otherwise".

THE most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on this forum.

Why would you say it's ridiculous? I'm sorry, but please point me in the direction of a Chris Martin alternative and a genuine left-winger. Thanks.

[sage]

Why would you say it's ridiculous? I'm sorry, but please point me in the direction of a Chris Martin alternative and a genuine left-winger. Thanks.

I agree we need these. Who would you suggest?

[David]

I'll take that bet. I'm saying he won't be in the top 2. We only usually announce first and second these days. £50?

Not sure I'd go with top 2. Martin, Shackell, Ince and Weimann will be up there in terms of nominations but as you say only the top 2 are announced, if we run a poll on here usually 2 are run away winners. Should have really thought about it before posting but how about this, after the season has finished we'll run a Weimann poll. Can see who's voted so it can't be rigged. Simple question, how do you rate Weimann's season, Excellent, Very Good, Good, Average, Poor, Very Poor. If 50% don't vote excellent, £50 will wing it's way to Belper