Foreign players playing for England

[Kernow]

Do you agree with it? Read somewhere that when Hodgson was at the Burnley Arsenal game last night, he was looking at a few players who haven't made senior appearances yet.

Those players are Danny Ings, Tom Heaaton... and Francis Coquelin. Now obviously he's French, but he's been one of the best midfielders in the PL this year (2015). If he was English and Ryan Mason can get called up then Coquelin would be too. If he was called up would you agree with it? A Frenchman playing for England?

[AndyinLiverpool]

John Barnes, Graham Le Saux, Tony Dorigo, Owen Hargreaves, Raheem Stirling, Matthew Le Tissier, Cyrille Regis.

 

Off the top of my head. The England team has never been the sole preserve of English-born players.

[Posh Ram]

Perhaps this isn't the opinion held by many but I wouldn't mind at all. Coquelin has come to prominence in the English football system, probably speaks decent English and qualifies to play for us on Fifa's rules. I don't see why he can't.

Let's face it, the national team is rubbish, and the youth system is pretty rubbish as well. If we can get talented youngsters like Coquelin to play for us, and benefit from it, then why not?

Not sure he's deserving of a cap though. Need him to keep up this good run of form. This attitude of giving caps to anyone of a certain age who's played moderately well is ridiculous. An England cap is something that should be earned.

[alexxxxx]

Coquelin is not eligible to play for england as when he played for french youth team he was not eligible to play for england... Same situation as arteta.

[Kernow]

Coquelin is not eligible to play for england as when he played for french youth team he was not eligible to play for england... Same situation as arteta.

​I didn't think youth mattered anymore, it has to be a competitive international before he is fully committed to a country? 

[Bris Vegas]

Has to be a competitive game, as I know for certainty there was a player who played friendlies for one nation before opting out for another.

I don't have a problem with it. If a player feels English and plays for the England national team with pride, then there is absolutely no problem at all.

What I don't particularly agree with is players who decide to play for lesser international teams because they know they can't make it elsewhere. Jamie Ward for Northern Ireland was pushing it - though he did play for the U18s and U21s - but there have been far worse cases like Giles Barnes.

 

 

 

[Kernow]

Is anyone clear on the rules? With the eligibilty thing, I'm pretty certain for England it's 5 years? So does this have to be consecutively? Coquelin (as an example) has been at Arsenal since 2008, but has spent two seasons on loan at foreign clubs. So would this count or would the other 5 years in England make him eligible. Confusing stuff.

[Bris Vegas]

I don't think so. As soon as you have a permit to play in England, and you're contracted to the FA, I assume that's it as you won't need specific permits/visas to play at fellow European clubs. Registration stays with the FA, I'm guessing.

Joel Campbell for instance has been with Arsenal since 2011 and has been granted his work permit for England depite playing the past three years on the continent.

[alexxxxx]

​I didn't think youth mattered anymore, it has to be a competitive international before he is fully committed to a country? 

​yeah you are fine to swap but you have to have been eligible for the other country at the time you played for the other. For Arteta his wikipedia states:

The player is not eligible for England because FIFA Statutes stipulate that the player needs to have held a British passport at the time when he represented Spain at the U16 European Championships and in addition he would have required five years of education in Britain before turning 18.

Coquelin moved to England when he was 17 and did not have a British passport from birth (at least it appears he doesn't), hence he is not eligible to play for England.

[davenportram]

The current statutes are here http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/02/58/14/48/2015fifastatutesen_neutral.pdf

 

5 Principle

1. Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain Country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that Country.

2. With the exception of the conditions specified in article 8 below, any Player who has already participated in a match (either in full or in part) in an Official Competition of any category or any type of football for one Association may not play an international match for a representative team of another Association.

 

7 Acquisition of a new nationality Any Player who refers to art. 5 par.1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art. 5 par. 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:

a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;

b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;

c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;

d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association

 

8 Change of Association 1. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may, only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches to the Association of another Country of which he holds nationality, subject to the following conditions:

a) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) in an Official Competition at “A” international level for his current Association, and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an Official Competition for his current Association, he already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play.

b) He is not permitted to play for his new Association in any competition in which he has already played for his previous Association.

 

​yeah you are fine to swap but you have to have been eligible for the other country at the time you played for the other. For Arteta his wikipedia states:

The player is not eligible for England because FIFA Statutes stipulate that the player needs to have held a British passport at the time when he represented Spain at the U16 European Championships and in addition he would have required five years of education in Britain before turning 18.

Coquelin moved to England when he was 17 and did not have a British passport from birth (at least it appears he doesn't), hence he is not eligible to play for England.

There is no mention of 5 years education in Britain before being 18 - just 5 years residency after the 18th Birthday.

​

Is anyone clear on the rules? With the eligibilty thing, I'm pretty certain for England it's 5 years? So does this have to be consecutively? Coquelin (as an example) has been at Arsenal since 2008, but has spent two seasons on loan at foreign clubs. So would this count or would the other 5 years in England make him eligible. Confusing stuff.

 

 

[alexxxxx]

The current statutes are here http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/02/58/14/48/2015fifastatutesen_neutral.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no mention of 5 years education in Britain before being 18 - just 5 years residency after the 18th Birthday.

​

 

 

 

​yeah, but read the second part of point 8 a)

 

"and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an Official Competition for his current Association, he already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play."

He was not British (or eligible to be British) at the point where he played for France U-17s so he is not eligible to play for England now.

[Anon]

Has to be a competitive game, as I know for certainty there was a player who played friendlies for one nation before opting out for another.

I don't have a problem with it. If a player feels English and plays for the England national team with pride, then there is absolutely no problem at all.

What I don't particularly agree with is players who decide to play for lesser international teams because they know they can't make it elsewhere. Jamie Ward for Northern Ireland was pushing it - though he did play for the U18s and U21s - but there have been far worse cases like Giles Barnes.

 

  I'm not overly keen on any foreign representatives at international level. The way it's going international football is just club football with barely any games and really complicated transfer regulations.

I think it's much less harmful for players like Barnes and Ward, who will never get a game for the country of their birth, to play for another nation than it is for England to go courting players like Janujaz and Coquelin who don't even have English families.

[davenportram]

​yeah, but read the second part of point 8 a)

 

"and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an Official Competition for his current Association, he already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play."

He was not British (or eligible to be British) at the point where he played for France U-17s so he is not eligible to play for England now.

​Yeah I know thats why I didnt comment on that bit of your post

[eddie]

Alfredo di Stefano played football for 3 countries.

[Dimmu]

France World Cup winners -98.

How many were born outside France? Straight from the memory Vieira, Desailly, Thuram and Karembeu... More or less key players.

[davenportram]

France World Cup winners -98.

How many were born outside France? Straight from the memory Vieira, Desailly, Thuram and Karembeu... More or less key players.

​but they held dual nationality. I was born in Germany so I could have played for England or Germany (had I been any good that is)

[RamNut]

Herr davenport?

[davenportram]

Herr davenport?

​I dint have dual nationality due to being born on an air force base (UK sovereign Soil)

[Anon]

France World Cup winners -98.

How many were born outside France? Straight from the memory Vieira, Desailly, Thuram and Karembeu... More or less key players.

​Out of those 4, only Karembeu didn't grow up in France. The other three's families all moved to France when they were still in primary school. It should also be noted that New Caledonia is not a sovereign nation, so technically Karembau was born French anyway.

There are mitigating circumstances for the four players you mentioned and it's quite easy to present a logical argument as to why they should feel French and represent France. Coquelin, on the other hand, was born in France, brought up in France, and all his family live in France. He moved to England to work when he was already an adult. That he works here is his only connection to the nation. I don't understand why he would want to represent England over France.

[Day]

If you're English you play for England. I don't like this play here for X years and you qualify or if your hairdresser is Scottish you can play for Scotland. Sterling is Jamaican and should be playing for Jamaica.

If you're not good enough for England sorry deal with it, I'm not good enough either. 

Chris Martin in a Scotland shirt and Ward in a Northern Ireland shirt is just wrong.

Was reading the other day that most of the Qatar squad are not even Qatarian, bonkers it is.