eddie Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Just so I am absolutely clear....the season is completely over now isn't it? Can no one see that the draw was a fair result, we had chances and Blackburn had probably more chances but let's not let the truth get in the way of a chance to slag off the manager eh.! Yep. Done and dusted. Our home record was 0-23-0 (having led in all 23 games) and our away record was 0-0-23. BCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 "I'm delighted we didn't lose" - Nigel Clough. Me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I would say for people jumping onto comments made by others and saying "it's one game" etc - it's not 1 game. Nobody is saying this season is over or anything in that same bracket. It's down to seeing the same thing we have seen over 5 years. We have again playing a central midfielder out wide to accommodate the 4-4-2 formation. This happens season after season, so it's not one game. We go into the final 15-20 mins with a goal lead and we sit back far far too deep yet again, as has been seen season after season. So these aren't overreaction gripes developed over one game. They've developed over the entire reign of Nigel. On positive notes. Hughes is looking even better, Russell looks a good signing. In fact I have no issue with any of the signings. We got the ball down and played at times. I do, however, have issue with who we haven't signed. As in we haven't signed another CB and we need some decent wide men if we are to stick to 4-4-2. I know we tried 4-3-3 for all of one game in pre-season and the decision was it didn't work and it was far more sensible to use a CM on the wing as it's worked wonderfully in the past. If we go into a season with 4-4-2 then do we need to sign another CM? We have CM's. Instead we go in playing one of them on the wing, where he is for the most part anonymous. We actually have a striker on the other wing, I have less of an issue with that but still don't see Ward as a great winger. Anyway one game down and we appear to have signed 5 players and now have the best squad under Nigel to play exactly the same way. Pass around nicely, panic in final third, lack movement off the ball and ultimately sit back and defend what we have. The team doesn't look balanced at all and we hardly had a player outside our own box for about 5 minutes before they scored. Would we have won if we had gone for it? Would we have lost 2-1 instead? Who knows but I would much prefer to see my team try to score and fail than sit there and turn the end of the game into an attack vs defence training session, which we tend to lose anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 >This tactic has cost us a lot of points over the last few seasons. Yep, but it has also won us more, fans only moan when it doesn't work. They soon forget the wins and draws that are achieved as a result of those same tactics.... Can anyone prove we have own or lost more points using this tactic? Or are both sides of that debate purely opinion? If it's fact I would like to see the stats. If it's opinion, that's fine but I would prefer to see my team try and fail than act like they're too scared to try at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eranio20 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 We've lost 23 more than we've won in Cloughs time here, so that theory is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 >This tactic has cost us a lot of points over the last few seasons. Yep, but it has also won us more, fans only moan when it doesn't work. They soon forget the wins and draws that are achieved as a result of those same tactics.... You can only protect what you have by defending. Its attacking play that has got us into these winning positions. Why not play to our strengths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 >This tactic has cost us a lot of points over the last few seasons. Yep, but it has also won us more, fans only moan when it doesn't work. They soon forget the wins and draws that are achieved as a result of those same tactics.... Let me know which games, would be interested to see some back up to that comment.. Do you follow us away from PP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 I would say for people jumping onto comments made by others and saying "it's one game" etc - it's not 1 game. Nobody is saying this season is over or anything in that same bracket. It's down to seeing the same thing we have seen over 5 years. We have again playing a central midfielder out wide to accommodate the 4-4-2 formation. This happens season after season, so it's not one game. We go into the final 15-20 mins with a goal lead and we sit back far far too deep yet again, as has been seen season after season. So these aren't overreaction gripes developed over one game. They've developed over the entire reign of Nigel. On positive notes. Hughes is looking even better, Russell looks a good signing. In fact I have no issue with any of the signings. We got the ball down and played at times. I do, however, have issue with who we haven't signed. As in we haven't signed another CB and we need some decent wide men if we are to stick to 4-4-2. I know we tried 4-3-3 for all of one game in pre-season and the decision was it didn't work and it was far more sensible to use a CM on the wing as it's worked wonderfully in the past. If we go into a season with 4-4-2 then do we need to sign another CM? We have CM's. Instead we go in playing one of them on the wing, where he is for the most part anonymous. We actually have a striker on the other wing, I have less of an issue with that but still don't see Ward as a great winger. Anyway one game down and we appear to have signed 5 players and now have the best squad under Nigel to play exactly the same way. Pass around nicely, panic in final third, lack movement off the ball and ultimately sit back and defend what we have. The team doesn't look balanced at all and we hardly had a player outside our own box for about 5 minutes before they scored. Would we have won if we had gone for it? Would we have lost 2-1 instead? Who knows but I would much prefer to see my team try to score and fail than sit there and turn the end of the game into an attack vs defence training session, which we tend to lose anyway. Spot on fella.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 . Because its tiring attacking all the time. It was clear some of the players were tiring. We need to give Clough a break and give Eustace a chance. I myself still think the defense needs strengthening . But we did ok yesterday Blackburn have quality players. I predicted 2-2 so 1-1 was good IMO. Cloughie should see some positives from that performance. ''Because it's tiring attacking all the time'' !!! I thought we had the best pre-season ever, they even made a bloody video of it. Were Blackburns players not tired also?? Believe me fella, it's a lot easier attacking than defending. Nothing worse than playing when you don't have the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Pretty much every game we have won or drawn since Nigel arrived has been achieved through using the tactics of defending what we have in the latter part of the game. I can't believe people are asking for examples, every game we have played where we have not been losing 20-30 minutes out is an example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 . Brian Cloughs team didn't attack all the time. Man it'd don't attack all the time why do you think they have Vidic and Ferdinand. It's unrealistic to attack for 90 minutes the players can't sustain it and the other team will have their attacking momentum as well. PS we lost to Blackburn 3-0 last season and 1-0 at home. You're missing the point.. Man U don't just hoof the ball up the park for the opposition just to put pressure straight back on them. They keep possession and probe!! Cloughs idea and I have heard him say it on numerous occasions, is to get the ball high up the pitch into the channels.. Keep the fkn ball man... So are you saying because we drew with Blackburn comparing that to last season results, we have shown progress?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 Pretty much every game we have won or drawn since Nigel arrived has been achieved through using the tactics of defending what we have in the latter part of the game. I can't believe people are asking for examples, every game we have played where we have not been losing 20-30 minutes out is an example... As a previous poster says we have lost 23 more games than we have won under Clough.. Did we go defensive against Watford at home last year.. NO case in point... We played some decent football at home last season but when he did employ this tactic, he fkd it up.. Wednesday at home.. Still can't believe that. Also where have we finished using this tactic over the last 4 seasons?? Bloody nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 You're missing the point.. Man U don't just hoof the ball up the park for the opposition just to put pressure straight back on them. They keep possession and probe!! Cloughs idea and I have heard him say it on numerous occasions, is to get the ball high up the pitch into the channels.. Keep the fkn ball man... So are you saying because we drew with Blackburn comparing that to last season results, we have shown progress?? well, if we improve on every result we got last season over every team we will romp the league....so i guess so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 You're missing the point.. Man U don't just hoof the ball up the park for the opposition just to put pressure straight back on them. They keep possession and probe!! Cloughs idea and I have heard him say it on numerous occasions, is to get the ball high up the pitch into the channels.. Keep the fkn ball man... So are you saying because we drew with Blackburn comparing that to last season results, we have shown progress?? I think what he was getting at was don't ass about with the ball around your own area with a few minutes to go. If you don't have a reasonable outlet put the ball into the far corner and get organised again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramble On Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I'll base my opinions on Clough after we've played a handful of away games to see if we've made any progress. However the bull about us not needing a new centre half is already wearing thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams71 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Did the commentators on the telly mention anything about us going defensive trying to hold on to the lead? Was at work so missed the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 I think what he was getting at was don't ass about with the ball around your own area with a few minutes to go. If you don't have a reasonable outlet put the ball into the far corner and get organised again. Which is a problem, you just give it away and get put under pressure again. He has installed fear in the team and you can see them get nervous. How many time yesterday did he come bounding out to his technical area screaming at players. Don't get me wrong, there will always be an occasion when you have to do this but it should not be plan A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 . Because its tiring attacking all the time. It was clear some of the players were tiring. We need to give Clough a break and give Eustace a chance. I myself still think the defense needs strengthening . But we did ok yesterday Blackburn have quality players. I predicted 2-2 so 1-1 was good IMO. Cloughie should see some positives from that performance. Well I imagine its tiring for the defence defending all the time? I agree that the result was not that bad yesterday, certainly when considering the same team tore us apart 3-0 just 6 or 7 months previous. It was just the manner of the game and what it will have done to the morale of the players and fans that disappointed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 My goodness even I am finding blaming Cloughie all the time ridiculous after 1 game. He did nothing wrong yesterday with his tactics against a good Blackburn side. In your opinion. I fail to see how inviting pressure on to a defence that can't keep clean sheets can be classed as anything other than suicidal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Clough neutralised us! Blackburn didn't have to do much to get back into the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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