Say We Get Into An Automatic Promotion-Chasing Position

[Bridgford Ram]

It was very disappointing and was easy to guess that this was what we were going to do - and just as easy to see that we would invite pressure and risk the 3 points.

I am a Clough fan and he is by no means the only manager who does this - we have suffered a succession of England managers who do the same - but it makes it no less frustrating.

And anyone who comes on this forum claiming Buxton to be good enough for the Championship, hang your heads in shame and reconsider whether football is the right sport for you.

[Mr Tibbs]

It was very disappointing and was easy to guess that this was what we were going to do - and just as easy to see that we would invite pressure and risk the 3 points.

I am a Clough fan and he is by no means the only manager who does this - we have suffered a succession of England managers who do the same - but it makes it no less frustrating.

And anyone who comes on this forum claiming Buxton to be good enough for the Championship, hang your heads in shame and reconsider whether football is the right sport for you.

 

 

He is good enough for the division, just not for a team that has any aspirations to finish above 10th IMO. There's plenty of poorer defenders at this level than Jake Buxton. 

[hector10]

A few things to get off my chest in my first post.

Firstly we played 4-5-1 from about 25 minutes in (not as the op suggests at the first substitution). Russell moved to RMF and it was only at that point we got a proper foothold in the game. I went to the Burton game and oddly the opposite happened there, we looked all at sea at 4-5-1 and it was only the change to 4-4-2 that saw us get effective.

My take on the 3 substitutions:

Coutts for Russell -

Russell (according to Clough admittedly) is not fully match fit. We didn't take off a forward for a midfielder because Russell hadn't played that position for over 30 minutes. The change to Coutts was logical because Russell was (maybe) tired and Coutts is possibly more effective in that position.

Personally I'd have brought Eustace on at that point and shuffled the midfield around but can see the reason for the change. Coutts didn't seem fully fit to me and that contributed to the ineffectiveness of the change.

Eustace for Hughes -

Hughes had just missed a tackle and didn't have the energy to track back. He looked pretty tired to me (first league game of the season, only 18 etc). There was only 9 or 10 minutes left and again the change seemed logical to me.

Sammon for Martin -

Still 1-0 up and regulation change at that time of the game.

Personally I don't see how the substitutions / tactics can be blamed. A team 1 goal down will generally finish strongly.

[ariotofmyown]

A few things to get off my chest in my first post.

Firstly we played 4-5-1 from about 25 minutes in (not as the op suggests at the first substitution). Russell moved to RMF and it was only at that point we got a proper foothold in the game. I went to the Burton game and oddly the opposite happened there, we looked all at sea at 4-5-1 and it was only the change to 4-4-2 that saw us get effective.

My take on the 3 substitutions:

Coutts for Russell -

Russell (according to Clough admittedly) is not fully match fit. We didn't take off a forward for a midfielder because Russell hadn't played that position for over 30 minutes. The change to Coutts was logical because Russell was (maybe) tired and Coutts is possibly more effective in that position.

Personally I'd have brought Eustace on at that point and shuffled the midfield around but can see the reason for the change. Coutts didn't seem fully fit to me and that contributed to the ineffectiveness of the change.

Eustace for Hughes -

Hughes had just missed a tackle and didn't have the energy to track back. He looked pretty tired to me (first league game of the season, only 18 etc). There was only 9 or 10 minutes left and again the change seemed logical to me.

Sammon for Martin -

Still 1-0 up and regulation change at that time of the game.

Personally I don't see how the substitutions / tactics can be blamed. A team 1 goal down will generally finish strongly.

Can everyone ignore this post please. Way too sensible.

I only managed to catch last 15 mins in noisey pub but was worried Hughes looked really knackered.

I saw a couple of posters mention the 451 change in the first half but were obviously ignored. Can someone who isn't one of the default Clough moaners but who also thinks Clough got it totally wrong today argue agsinst Hector's points please?

That's got it wrong TODAY. Not negative changes last season that cost us -7 points last season based on Albert's 4 to 1 ratio. Nice stat there by the way.

[CumbrianRam]

Must just be coincidence than that we began to sit back as soon as Russell came off, although 4-5-1 is mainly used as a defensive formation to control possession in midfield, but midfield runners and decent supply into the box can work a treat for quick attacks, especially on the break.

 

Only Hughes really made runs into the box from midfield on a consistent basis, but our ball retention did improve from when Rochina went off to Russell going off and we limited Blackburn, however I think more joy should have taken out from Kane who had several challenges which could have got yellows.

 

Watching the game on television, when people like Martin Tyler, a man who has watched plenty of football over years at many levels struggle to find words for the tactics/player mentality/whatever in the last 3rd of that match it does tell you something. Unlike other lead commentators, Tyler does come across as a commentator with decent footballing knowledge and it was nice to hear him commentate on a FL match for once.

 

I just see so much potential in our team but with our defensive record in previous sometimes attack is the best form of defence and despite a pretty poor performance we did create chances and tested Kean with a couple of fine efforts.

[mcsilks]

We're top of the table, but we play second placed Wigan at Pride Park in a six pointer in late March.

 

We score in the first half and go into the break 1-0 up, buoying with confidence, a standing ovation to the players.

 

Then, after 60 minutes, Clough takes our most potent players, goes 4-5-1 and drops every player behind the ball when Wigan have possession. You can imagine what happens next...

 

I'm not going to judge this season after one match, but this isn't a new problem. I was hoping we would have the players to make this sort of thing go away. If Clough does ever get a really decent team together, what evidence is there to suggest this tetchy negativity when holding on for dear life over a team no better than ours will suddenly disappear?

 

Maybe we have better players than last season, I don't know, but the manager obviously doesn't think them capable enough to kill off Blackburn.

 

 

First and foremost, it's highly unrealistic that we'll be chasing an automatic spot with the kinds of funds and players that Clough has at his disposal.

 

In reaction to your comments on the game...

 

We started the second half in a 4-5-1 and had our best spell for the first 15 minutes of the half. Nothing wrong with the tactics there at all.

 

Your claim that we took off a potent player. Really? We did in fact take off a player that wanted to come off because he was knackered and was having little or no effect on the game.

 

I'm happy enough with the result yesterday if not the performance. We sat back for too much of the game and didn't start to play until after the 30 minute mark. The again, if not for a finish more akin to the Premiership, we would have taken an unlikely three points. 

 

One or two positives but more evidence that we have a squad will battle but lacks the ability to control a game against a side made up of more experienced players with Premier League experience.

[HeyHudson]

Not sure if anyone else spotted it, but right before Hughes was subbed, both Hendrick and Keogh had a word with him seemingly trying to calm him down. I'd noticed the Blackburn players targeting him a bit so maybe he was getting a bit wound up as well.

[Duracell]

First and foremost, it's highly unrealistic that we'll be chasing an automatic spot with the kinds of funds and players that Clough has at his disposal.

 

In reaction to your comments on the game...

 

We started the second half in a 4-5-1 and had our best spell for the first 15 minutes of the half. Nothing wrong with the tactics there at all.

 

Your claim that we took off a potent player. Really? We did in fact take off a player that wanted to come off because he was knackered and was having little or no effect on the game.

 

I'm happy enough with the result yesterday if not the performance. We sat back for too much of the game and didn't start to play until after the 30 minute mark. The again, if not for a finish more akin to the Premiership, we would have taken an unlikely three points. 

 

One or two positives but more evidence that we have a squad will battle but lacks the ability to control a game against a side made up of more experienced players with Premier League experience.

Fair comments really, remember I posted this thread immediately after the game!

[G STAR RAM]

The point about money wasn't an excuse, I just find it funny when people try and go on about quality on opening day. Who knows where teams will end up. Ultimately we ended up taking a point when 3 seemed on offer. Oh well, the season is 46 matches long, and we've played one. We'll get some harsh results, some lucky results. Sometimes teams will get lucky pushing us late, many won't. At the end of the day nothing waters down this kind of nonsense like it being trotted out every time something doesn't go exactly our way, and as sick of us conceding equalisers as some might be, this kind of overreaction is not only sickening, tiring and ridiculous, but doesn't even reflect reality. In fact, it seems to just reflect a childish nature and lack of a proper memory of past events.

Now, I'm sure someone is reading the above and thinking "doesn't reflect reality, I know what I've seen". The question though is do you? How many times last season in the league did we give up a winning position to draw late on? A grand total of once, against Sheffield Wednesday, on opening day. How many times did we snatch a draw from a losing position though? Four times, including once against Blackburn, at home.

This reaction is absolutely pathetic, and speaks more to an immature nature of some people than anything else.

 

Albert, you are obviously a man who enjoys stats.

 

If you had seen the stat that we had not kept a clean sheet for 10 years on the opening day of the season would you have been tempted to 'shut up shop' after 65 minutes?

 

It's not the fact that NC tried to protect what we had that made me angry yesterday, it is the fact that he did it so early in the first home game of the season and completely ruined the atmosphere. At a time when numbers are dwindling, how are we going to attract fans back with boring negative tactics like the ones deployed yesterday?

 

Let's not forget the match was on tv yesterday and a great opportunity to sell ourselves to the drifters.

[ladyram]

Not sure if anyone else spotted it, but right before Hughes was subbed, both Hendrick and Keogh had a word with him seemingly trying to calm him down. I'd noticed the Blackburn players targeting him a bit so maybe he was getting a bit wound up as well.

I noticed that too, from the off that their players were at him pretending to be fouled. Much bigger lads than Hughes anorl. It takes a big man to do that doesn't it? I'm not surprised he lost his rag but that's what his team-mates are for, especially Keough. He might have been subbed before he lost it and was sent off maybe? Could that be why he looked pee'd off in the dugout?