Scott129 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Proof? Fair enough, just an assumption. Although I'm 95% sure I'm right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Erm try the last 5 years for substance.. What makes you think all of those facts in the middle have changed? On the back of 5 pre-season games.. Last 5 years? Then the majority of what you've put forward makes no sense at all. Your second question is exactly what I mean in my OP, how can you make these claims when a competitive ball hasn't been kicked yet? We might not be better away from home but we also might be? Russell is a better player than Theo, we know that, will he score as many, we'll have to wait to find out. Will Ward stay injury free, who knows. There's no substance to argue any of those claims yet, why don't you just wait and see? You could say all that what you have but quite easily say the opposite as its based on buggar all at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggie192 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Erm try the last 5 years for substance.. What makes you think all of those facts in the middle have changed? On the back of 5 pre-season games.. Jesus, it was a friendly. One I expected us to win. From the Birmingham mail Twitterfeed, neither team went full out. We're are only just finishing the fitness stage of pre-season. From the journo who was covering it said you had your chances. by no means did Derby disgrace themselves. It was a match to fine tune yourselves for the start of the season. the idea was for either side to avoid injuries which happened. It really wasn't the end of the world mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 There is absolutely nothing to suggest we'll finally start being positive away from home or get some better results, nothing to suggest Russel will be any more prolific than Theo, nothing to suggest Sammon will start taking his chances, nothing to suggest our back 5 will start keeping clean sheets, nothing to suggest Bryson will start bossing a midfield, nothing to suggest our next RB will be able to carry Coutts, nothing to suggest Ward will stay injury free etc etc.. Last 5 years? Then the majority of what you've put forward makes no sense at all. Your second question is exactly what I mean in my OP, how can you make these claims when a competitive ball hasn't been kicked yet? We might not be better away from home but we also might be? Russell is a better player than Theo, we know that, will he score as many, we'll have to wait to find out. Will Ward stay injury free, who knows. There's no substance to argue any of those claims yet, why don't you just wait and see? You could say all that what you have but quite easily say the opposite as its based on buggar all at the moment. Ok let's break it down.. Negative - Ever since NC walked through the door we've been negative away from home.. Our goals scored and chances created is proof of this.. Other than a 2-3 month period in late 2010 we've simply allowed the opposition to come onto us and dictate play, whilst we've been happy to walk away with a draw.. Russell vs Theo - What makes everyone so sure an uncapped Scottish striker coming from the SPL will be a hit here.. He might be absolute rubbish.. At least I'm prepared to wait, people on here have already decided he's our Scottish Messi.. Sammon - The guy has been so poor at finishing for the past 2 years and that's a fact.. Why is this all of a sudden going to change? Bryson - For the past 2 years has been a near passenger away from home, constantly bullied and shoved off the ball and has seemingly disappeared from away games.. Why is this going to change? RB - Coutts is such an average footballer and only ever looked good at time because of Brayford.. What proof is there that the next RB will be able to link up as well as Brayford and bail Coutts out? Ward - I genuinely like the guy, but he's injury prone and has been all his career.. What makes you think this will change? The original question by EKR was 'What is different between this year and last' and it's up to us to decide if there is one.. The above information is basic facts about the past few years and I want to know why people are so sure that they are going to change? It's not based on buggar all.. Those statements are from the past few years.. How can i make these claims before a ball is being kicked? I'm not the one making wild claims here, I'm not the one saying we're going to do this, that and the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I'm on holiday so can't be arsed to make a full post or even read half the thread, but I am not at all surprised people are attempting to judge our season off the back of one pre season friendly. That's football fans for you. According to pre-season results, we're much better than League 2 and Irish teams, but not as good as a decent Premier League side. Wow! Who woulda thunk it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Ok let's break it down.. Negative - Ever since NC walked through the door we've been negative away from home.. Our goals scored and chances created is proof of this.. Other than a 2-3 month period in late 2010 we've simply allowed the opposition to come onto us and dictate play, whilst we've been happy to walk away with a draw.. I think there's a big difference between being negative and being happy with a point, cautious as I like to call it. I've seen my fair share of away games whilst Clough has been in charge and I don't jump on the negative bandwagon. We held our own in 75% of our away games last year from what I saw, only getting a pasting at Palace and then a 40 minute spell at Leicester. The rest of what I saw wasn't as bad as some people make out, lot's of inexperience and the bad decisions that come along with that which cost us points. The lack of a decent striker also. When we play 4-5-1 we don't sit on the edge of our 18 yard box, if you actually watch it we play quite a high line (considering we have Bucko) away from home. We don't park the bus, we've just not been good enough. One of the main problems last year was our ball retention in the last third, Sammon just wasn't good enough at holding it up, meaning the home team had more of the ball. With a better keeper coming in, potentially a better CB than Bucko aswell as a right back who can probably defend as well as Bray could, I can't see why we can't tighten up. The addition of Eustace will prove to be a good one in away games I expect, we could of done with abit of experience next to the ever hustling Bryson last year to see out games. Russell vs Theo - What makes everyone so sure an uncapped Scottish striker coming from the SPL will be a hit here.. He might be absolute rubbish.. At least I'm prepared to wait, people on here have already decided he's our Scottish Messi.. He's impressed north of the border, with rave reviews from the Dundee fans, he banged in plenty of goals last year. I don't think he's going to be the miraculous 20+ goals a season man everyone craves for but I'm hoping he can get 15 odd with plenty of good play along with the goals. When our striking options other than Martin are Theo, Tyson and Sammon I can't see why he won't be our star man that everyone keeps tagging on him before he's kicked a competitive ball. From what I've seen of him up north and in pre-season he's a much better footballer than the 3 previously mentioned strikers and he has an eye for a goal. What's not to be optimistic about? Sammon - The guy has been so poor at finishing for the past 2 years and that's a fact.. Why is this all of a sudden going to change? Why did Glenn Murray go from being awful infront of goal in his first year at this level to Championship top goalscorer within 12 months? Strikers go through stages, I don't think he'll all of a sudden put every chance away he get's but after getting to grips with a tough first season there's no reason why he can't kick on. He's gained some valuable experience on the international stage and has better strikers to partner than this time last year. I don't think we'll be pinning all our striking hopes on him like we did for the majority of last year. He's probably going to play second fiddle to Martin and Russell anyway with the look of it. Bryson - For the past 2 years has been a near passenger away from home, constantly bullied and shoved off the ball and has seemingly disappeared from away games.. Why is this going to change? Disagree, if there's any centre mid that's been a "passenger" over the last 2 years it's Hendrick, mainly in the first 4 months of last season, leaving Bryson to cover too much ground and leave our defence exposed. In his first year here he won POTY not on the back of home performances alone, he was good away from home too. I've not come away from any away game thinking he needs to up his game, he's been fine. He's nothing special, you know what you're going to get from him. Him and Eustace to see out games away from home should be fine IMO. Or, throw Eustace on for a striker and play him behind Bryson/Hendrick/Hughes allowing them to concentrate on stronger parts of their game. RB - Coutts is such an average footballer and only ever looked good at time because of Brayford.. What proof is there that the next RB will be able to link up as well as Brayford and bail Coutts out? Disagree also, how you can call some of these facts is abit beyond me. Opinions pal, opinions. He was really good up until Xmas, seemed to be lacking fitness afterwards which can easily be sorted with a whole pre-season and training program with ourselves. Coutts always looks to utilise the RB, there's no doubt he'll be able to link up with him. The only thing we lose is the wave-length the two of them were on and the attacking prowess of Bray (depending on who we bring in). Once again, not one of the best RM's in the division, in "fact", he's naturally not a wide player, CM being his preferred position. For someone who cost £150k and who we play out of position I don't feel there's much to moan at. Ward - I genuinely like the guy, but he's injury prone and has been all his career.. What makes you think this will change? Nothing makes me think his injuries will go away, or more specifically the hamstring injuries that have kept him out for spells at every club he's ever been at. He might be out for months, he might not.. there's no certainty. What is certain is that he will score goals and win matches for Derby County. The original question by EKR was 'What is different between this year and last' and it's up to us to decide if there is one.. The above information is basic facts about the past few years and I want to know why people are so sure that they are going to change? It's not based on buggar all.. Those statements are from the past few years.. How can i make these claims before a ball is being kicked? I'm not the one making wild claims here, I'm not the one saying we're going to do this, that and the other. If you could predict football or footballers performances over a season then there wouldn't be any of this at all, the "fact" is, you can't. You can't say now whether we'll be **** away from home or not. You can guess, but for all you know we might have a different approach/formation for away matches. We just don't know. What you've talked about is in the past, football is all about what's currently happening and we can't say yay or nay to anything yet because we've literally seen naff all. You use the term "nothing to suggest" X amount of times in you're OP, there's nothing to suggest because you haven't seen anything from this season, DCFC's 2013/2014 squad, DCFC's 2013/2014 game plans.. I just don't see the point in writing things off before we've given Nige and the players any chance at all to show us what they've changed to push us on this year. Sit tight for a couple of month's and maybe I'll join you on your "nothing to suggest" bandwagon, until I've given anyone a chance to prove me otherwise I don't feel the need to bring it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggie192 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Video of the goals http://tinyurl.com/nw9p68y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwram1973 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Blind pessimism? Are you for real?.. I'm going on the back of the last 5 years of solid facts.. Yet you live in cloud cuckoo land if you think otherwise.. Ceefax is never wrong.. OK BRIS LETS LOOK AT THE FACTS COS I'M GETTING TIRED OF YOU ***** NOW. Nigel Clough came in and has had to reshape this club from top to bottom FACT!. He has had to move on more players than most managers I have ever known, is that his fault? NO!. What do you expect?, for him to come in and suddenly make us into premier league superstars?. YOUR THE ONE LIVING IN CLOUD CUCKOO LAND. NOTHINGS EVER GOOD ENOUGH. How long did it take Fergie to turn man utd round?, hmmm, good job you ain't in charge of a club or we'd have a manager every half season. Under other managers & backroom staff, how many players have come through which 99.9% of us are excited about?. O'Brien Hendrick Hughes Ball Bennett. You won't be happy until we get some rich eastern playboy who will throw money at us and we'll end up in the ****. Were being run properly & although we are not seeing instant success, i'm sure we will get there. Go and support another club if you want glory Bris. Or just GO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggie192 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 OK BRIS LETS LOOK AT THE FACTS COS I'M GETTING TIRED OF YOU ***** NOW. Nigel Clough came in and has had to reshape this club from top to bottom FACT!. He has had to move on more players than most managers I have ever known, is that his fault? NO!. What do you expect?, for him to come in and suddenly make us into premier league superstars?. YOUR THE ONE LIVING IN CLOUD CUCKOO LAND. NOTHINGS EVER GOOD ENOUGH. How long did it take Fergie to turn man utd round?, hmmm, good job you ain't in charge of a club or we'd have a manager every half season. Under other managers & backroom staff, how many players have come through which 99.9% of us are excited about?. O'Brien Hendrick Hughes Ball Bennett. You won't be happy until we get some rich eastern playboy who will throw money at us and we'll end up in the ****. Were being run properly & although we are not seeing instant success, i'm sure we will get there. Go and support another club if you want glory Bris. Or just GO. To put into perspective it's taken us 13 years and 4 yo-yo's to get to where we are today. 3 of the Parachute paymants were reinvested into making the Championship side the best it possibly could be, before we even considered Premiership Stability in 2010. We're still a work in progress, and, Although I enjoy the Prem I can't relax until we have 40+pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Fair enough, just an assumption. Although I'm 95% sure I'm right. The fact that the other week Bris claimed that the offside law had been changed away from 'daylight' - something that was not mentioned in the first place nor had it ever been. No-one who has ever been involved in coaching would have ever made such a mistake. He must have been in the movies then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 To put into perspective it's taken us 13 years and 4 yo-yo's to get to where we are today. 3 of the Parachute paymants were reinvested into making the Championship side the best it possibly could be, before we even considered Premiership Stability in 2010. We're still a work in progress, and, Although I enjoy the Prem I can't relax until we have 40+pts Isn't it amazing the difference a year makes - that and the sheer difference in owner strategy. WBA is one of the teams I fully admire for doing it the right way, along with Swansea (albeit without the yo-yoing, as yet), while teams like Leicester throw money here there and everywhere and suffer the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 All very boring You can't judge a match my reading ceefax.. As is proved by BV's analysis of the game Like watching a film just by reading the sub-titles Not knocking him....but on this occasion he was just plain wrong. P.s. the how do we know russell is better than robinson argument is pretty flawed too. I'd quietly forget that one if i was you mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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