Greed

[Day]

I read The Secret Footballer a couple of months ago, there was a page on money which stuck in my head for some reason...to be honest I know why it's because of this forum, the GSE out threads, the player suggestion threads, the play off threads.

This is the page....

It seems a little alien to me now, but when I think back to when I was kicking a flat ball around a council estate with holes in my Nike hand-me-downs, I was just as curious about players' wages. Now that I am a footballer and I earn some of those zeros that curiosity has gone. But for a fan, those feelings and questions remain. So let's talk money.

Be honest. How many of you, when berating a player either in the pub or in the stands, bring up money? Most, I'll bet. "Overpaid!" "Not worth it!" Not many say the owners were mad to give him the wage in the first place. Instead, most of the anger goes towards the player, for seemingly having the sheer nerve to accept it. And this is what I don't understand, because in any walk of life, how many people say: "You know what, I think you're paying me too much." And there aren't many of us who would turn down the opportunity to leave a place of work and do the same job for somebody else if it meant a higher salary and a better standard of living for our families and ourselves. So I try not to feel guilty – although I sometimes do – and I try not to feel that I have been greedy in any way.

That is not to say that I don't "get" the argument of "How much is enough?" when people question why a player earning tens of thousands of pounds a week needs to ask for 10k, 20k or 30k more. But, as far as I'm aware, it is still illegal in this country for a player to hold a gun to a chairman's head. Shame, really.

The point I am trying to make is that football club owners, as much as players, drive wages. After all, a player can ask for as many zeros on the end of his salary as he wants but the only way he will get that money is if an owner is willing to pay it. And, by the same token, none of those players sold on deadline day would have left their clubs, no matter how much they wanted to get away, without a chairman signing a huge cheque at the other end. It seems to me that on deadline day "no" is the hardest word.

To let you into my mind, when I find myself the subject of a transfer and subsequent contract negotiations, I try to remove all of the emotion and work on this simple principle: a group of business people have taken the decision that their club can afford to make me an offer of X amount of money over Y amount of years. If their business falls in to decline, it is because those same people got their figures wrong or misjudged the market. Players can, of course, fail to live up to expectations, but can one bad signing bring down a football club?

Before I stand accused of portraying all footballers as the good guys, let me share a few things. Between you, me and the rest of the world, there are some players out there moving clubs every year to earn contract pay-offs and signing-on fees. Some players see football purely in financial terms, exactly like people do in other professions. They play the game simply because it's a well-paid job. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard: "If I could get the same money doing something else, I'd be gone in a flash." Sometimes they sound almost believable.

Every job has its perks, so why not try to enjoy the ones that come with playing football for millions of pounds? As the song goes, I like new cars, caviar and four-star daydreams but as for buying a football team, I'll leave that to the billionaires that spent eight-figure sums on players last month. And who cares where their money comes from? Not players and not many supporters – at least not until it goes wrong.

So what do fans really want? Players to give 100 per cent? That's the easy answer. How about every trophy, every great player and the best coach possible? And it isn't enough to just win, if the football gods could throw in relegation or financial strife for your biggest rival, well that would be even better.

So who is greedy? Not me. The owners? In some cases, definitely. You? Well, I wouldn't say greedy, just super ambitious and there is certainly nothing wrong with that in life. But the next time you go to punch your pin in on the debit machine to buy three tickets to watch your team play, ask yourself what really makes you happy? Because those of you who want the very best talent that enables your team to compete and win trophies will know that somebody has to pay for it, and those same people will also understand that if it all ends in tears, it isn't necessarily the players that need shooting because, for the most part, we're just playing our role in somebody else's grand design. Those who don't understand that argument, take your card out of the machine and take the kids to the park. Either way, the real power still belongs to you.

I'm not calling any member out or the post that made me realise it but football fans are greedy fcukers, I disagree with 'super ambitious', it's greed and for me it's worse than Rooney picking up £100k+ pw.

Go on any football forum, twitter, facebook and I bet within the last 24hrs you will see a fan complaining about how much money their club has spent and will have to spend in the summer. It's embarrassing it really is, I think some people should realise how lucky they are to support their clubs especially Derby fans right now.

This summer I'm going to put my feet up, look forward to welcoming any new signing to the club regardless of transfer fee, wage or what club he came from, I'm going to remain optimistic of promotion and look forward to next season.

Just thought I'd share that with you before I go get my midnight snack.

[uttoxram75]

"take your card out of the machine and take the kids to the park. Either way, the real power still belongs to you

 

love that quote......

[Ambitious]

I read The Secret Footballer a couple of months ago, there was a page on money which stuck in my head for some reason...to be honest I know why it's because of this forum, the GSE out threads, the player suggestion threads, the play off threads.

This is the page....

I'm not calling any member out or the post that made me realise it but football fans are greedy fcukers, I disagree with 'super ambitious', it's greed and for me it's worse than Rooney picking up £100k+ pw.

Go on any football forum, twitter, facebook and I bet within the last 24hrs you will see a fan complaining about how much money their club has spent and will have to spend in the summer. It's embarrassing it really is, I think some people should realise how lucky they are to support their clubs especially Derby fans right now.

This summer I'm going to put my feet up, look forward to welcoming any new signing to the club regardless of transfer fee, wage or what club he came from, I'm going to remain optimistic of promotion and look forward to next season.

Just thought I'd share that with you before I go get my midnight snack.

 

 

Very good and very true. 

 

I have done this in the past, and blamed players - but they're not to blame at the end of the day. In my line of work, it's not inconceivable that a large company (worldwide) could pay me hundreds of thousands a year (to do the same job) but to a much higher technical and specialist standard - if that was to happen, first thing I would do is snap their hand off (bullshit for a couple of weeks) and then try and wing it due to not having the ability to for fill my tasks.  I think most people would! 

 

As a football fan, especially in the championship - you strive for that 'little bit more' to get you over the line, unfortunately in a lot of peoples opinion this is an expensive striker coming through the door... and the blame is either laid firmly at the door or the owner, regardless of what teams around them are doing. 

 

Some owners may want to throw money at a problem and hope for the best, but just leaves fans baying for blood and people should know that.

 

Forest fans are a prime example, show a little bit of money in a restructuring job and now want about 10million spent in the summer - ridiculous! 

[Day]

I'm no angel either, almost 30k posts I'm pretty sure you will find me having a pop here and there but that page really stuck with me.

Toast dunked in cuppa soup is lovely as well, I wasn't greedy, just the 2 slices.

[Scott129]

Out of interest, would you recommend "The Secret Footballer"?

 

I keep meaning to buy it but never got round to it

[Mostyn6]

it is a good read, but it's been careful to not say too much.

 

I'd love everyone to cancel their Sky sports.

 

Fans turning up at matches barely covers the wages let alone transfer fees etc.

[Alph]

I never care the cost of our players. Never really have. I just care whether they're good.

But, what if Derby decide not to pay the going rate? What if they say 'hold up, we aren't paying these lads any more than 2k per week'

Where will that lead? League 1. Can we not ask that the budget matches the goals we've set? Forget Leicester and Cardiff. Is it wrong to ask our club to make sure that when the rich kids have done buying that we are paying a competitive rate to attract the very best players we can? Is that greed?

What's the difference between greed and ambition?

[Alex W]

I don't think I've ever begrudged a player earning what they do, only if they clearly aren't putting the effort in to earn them, which is more rare than you'd think.

 

It's like Sammon, I think we've wasted our money on him. But he's brave enough to keep going, regardless of what people say about him (which is one of the best traits to have as a person or player) and he runs himself into the ground. Can't ask any more of him, he earns what he's paid.

 

I'm pretty sure most people on here, if we were skilled enough, would flit between clubs if a rival offered more in wages than you were on at the time. I know I would.

[randombc]

Football like any career is a job, and it doesn't matter who you are, everything is swung by money. If I was on £30,000 a year, and a company offered me £40,000 a year i'd change, everyone else would - exactly the same with footballers. If I was on £5,000 a week at Derby and Forest offered me £10,000 a week I'd move. Footballers have a maximum of 20 years in them (unless your super human like Giggs) so it's up to them to earn every penny while they can!

 

I'll always remember when Seth Johnson signed for Leeds, and him and his agent agreed that he wouldn't sign for anything less than £12,000 a week (or something along that figure), the Leeds chairman started negotiations at £30,000 a week! Who's really going to say, 'Well to be honest, I'm happy with £12,000 a week, so why don't you keep that extra £18,000 and keep your bank account out of the red?' I believe they ended up agreeing upon a £35,000 a week contract.

 

Madness!

[Ramchope]

Football like any career is a job, and it doesn't matter who you are, everything is swung by money. If I was on £30,000 a year, and a company offered me £40,000 a year i'd change, everyone else would - exactly the same with footballers. If I was on £5,000 a week at Derby and Forest offered me £10,000 a week I'd move. Footballers have a maximum of 20 years in them (unless your super human like Giggs) so it's up to them to earn every penny while they can!

 

I'll always remember when Seth Johnson signed for Leeds, and him and his agent agreed that he wouldn't sign for anything less than £12,000 a week (or something along that figure), the Leeds chairman started negotiations at £30,000 a week! Who's really going to say, 'Well to be honest, I'm happy with £12,000 a week, so why don't you keep that extra £18,000 and keep your bank account out of the red?' I believe they ended up agreeing upon a £35,000 a week contract.

 

Madness!

You'd really leave Derby for Forest for 5 grand extra a week? I'd take 260k a year and play for Derby over anything at Forest.

[Hucknall Ram]

Football like any career is a job, and it doesn't matter who you are, everything is swung by money. If I was on £30,000 a year, and a company offered me £40,000 a year i'd change, everyone else would - exactly the same with footballers. If I was on £5,000 a week at Derby and Forest offered me £10,000 a week I'd move. Footballers have a maximum of 20 years in them (unless your super human like Giggs) so it's up to them to earn every penny while they can!

 

I'll always remember when Seth Johnson signed for Leeds, and him and his agent agreed that he wouldn't sign for anything less than £12,000 a week (or something along that figure), the Leeds chairman started negotiations at £30,000 a week! Who's really going to say, 'Well to be honest, I'm happy with £12,000 a week, so why don't you keep that extra £18,000 and keep your bank account out of the red?' I believe they ended up agreeing upon a £35,000 a week contract.

 

Madness!

I heard a very similar story about Alen Bokšić's move to Middlesbrough 

[Asanovic]

You'd really leave Derby for Forest for 5 grand extra a week? I'd take 260k a year and play for Derby over anything at Forest.

 

I think that, but I guess when you're a footballer you think differently.

 

When you're on an apprenticeship on £40pw, you want to be the guy on £100pw in the office next door. Once you're there, you want to be the guy on £150.

 

When you're on £100k, you want to be director on £200k. And, I guess, when you're the player on £55k, you want to be on £75k! It's human nature.

 

I'd like to think that if I was a pro footballer, and I had the opportunity to play for Derby, I'd play there for the rest of my life and not be fussed about a pay rise, because I love the club so much. But if other things come in to play, like opportunities to play for England, and the only way to exploit those opportunities was to play for forest, it'd have to cross your mind.

 

I'd still hate them though.

[Day]

I never care the cost of our players. Never really have. I just care whether they're good.

But, what if Derby decide not to pay the going rate? What if they say 'hold up, we aren't paying these lads any more than 2k per week'

Where will that lead? League 1. Can we not ask that the budget matches the goals we've set? Forget Leicester and Cardiff. Is it wrong to ask our club to make sure that when the rich kids have done buying that we are paying a competitive rate to attract the very best players we can? Is that greed?

What's the difference between greed and ambition?

 

We are paying a competitive rate, if we wasn't we wouldn't have the players to finish 10th, the competitive rate is not enough for some and around September the GSE out threads will return because our net profit blah blah.

 

Some laugh at Rush's play off ambitions without major investment but our home form was right up there with the top 6, we even scored more goals than the top 4 at home with the current squad and the controversial Sammon in the team. I think Mostyn went there in a thread in Rams Talk, all the focus is one who shall we buy or take off Norwich's hands, it was last week I think that a couple we throwing a tantrum because the Burton Mail didn't have us in pole position for Vaughan, we were doomed to relegation.

 

The real issue isn't how much we can spunk in the summer but how does Nigel get our players up for it away from home, if he could have done that the season just gone it could of been us being greeted with a pile of **** in Brighton.

 

What if we suddenly wage capped at 2k pw? what if we didn't as that's more likely.

[North_Stand_Ram]

Notts County have a decent winger called Jeff Hughes. Out of contract and there's been some champ teams sniffing around including Leeds. Rejects a new contract offer from Notts and signs for Fleetwood of league 2... I do question the ambition of players sometimes. 

[Day]

Notts County have a decent winger called Jeff Hughes. Out of contract and there's been some champ teams sniffing around including Leeds. Rejects a new contract offer from Notts and signs for Fleetwood of league 2... I do question the ambition of players sometimes. 

 

Another thing in The Secret Footballer book he talks about rumours in the gossip columns, most of which are started by agents. Just because you've seen it written in a corner of a tabloid or the Burton Mail doesn't make it true. Could be that nobody was interested in Hughes other than Fleetwood despite the best efforts from his agent.

 

Yes he's dropped a level but so has Chris Martin and so will Simeon Jackson that so many want.

[North_Stand_Ram]

Another thing in The Secret Footballer book he talks about rumours in the gossip columns, most of which are started by agents. Just because you've seen it written in a corner of a tabloid or the Burton Mail doesn't make it true. Could be that nobody was interested in Hughes other than Fleetwood despite the best efforts from his agent.

 

Yes he's dropped a level but so has Chris Martin and so will Simeon Jackson that so many want.

 

Hughes started for Notts and rejected a new deal to drop a league. Jackson and Martin were released. 

[Day]

Hughes started for Notts and rejected a new deal to drop a league. Jackson and Martin were released. 

 

So what are you saying, Fleetwood outbid Championship clubs and Notts County that's why he went? 

 

You know Hughes is from Northern Ireland, Fleetwood do ferries across to Northern Ireland, just throwing it out there but could it be so he can nip home, see family perhaps quicker than being in Nottingham. Maybe Fleetwood matched the wages Notts County were offering as well which made it an even sweeter deal for him?

[North_Stand_Ram]

So what are you saying, Fleetwood outbid Championship clubs and Notts County that's why he went? 

 

You know Hughes is from Northern Ireland, Fleetwood do ferries across to Northern Ireland, just throwing it out there but could it be so he can nip home, see family perhaps quicker than being in Nottingham. Maybe Fleetwood matched the wages Notts County were offering as well which made it an even sweeter deal for him?

 

Perhaps there was no championship offers, but there was interest. 

 

I just fail to see why he or any player for that matter would drop a league, even for money. A model pro would want to play at the highest level they possibly can. A NI international playing for a tiny club in that league. Fair enough, if reasons you stated are true, but the way the modern game is going it's going to happen a lot more. 3 of Europe's best players, Moutiniho and Rodriquez of Porto and Falco of Athletic Madrid are close to joining a newly promoted team to the French first division. Yes, Monaco are minted, so are obviously offering them huge wage packets, but there's been interest from all over Europe including United, Spurs and Chelsea for the 3. I just can't understand why players who are going to be on huge wage wherever they play would want to play in a rather small league (in comparison to Europe's best leagues) with no European football. Just my opinion. 

[Day]

Perhaps there was no championship offers, but there was interest.

How do you know there was interest?

 

I just fail to see why he or any player for that matter would drop a league, even for money. A model pro would want to play at the highest level they possibly can. A NI international playing for a tiny club in that league. Fair enough, if reasons you stated are true, but the way the modern game is going it's going to happen a lot more.

Players drop leagues all the time it's no biggy, Look at £10m rate Henri Lansbury at Forest...ahem. You have to remember that they are normal people with families not just footballers. The missus could hate Nottingham and who would blame her? he may not like the staff, the physio, the food, he may have been offered 50k pw and a go with the chairmans missus who knows.

 

3 of Europe's best players, Moutiniho and Rodriquez of Porto and Falco of Athletic Madrid are close to joining a newly promoted team to the French first division. Yes, Monaco are minted, so are obviously offering them huge wage packets, but there's been interest from all over Europe including United, Spurs and Chelsea for the 3. I just can't understand why players who are going to be on huge wage wherever they play would want to play in a rather small league (in comparison to Europe's best leagues) with no European football. Just my opinion.

Again where have you had confirmation of this interest? the newspapers? I'm not saying there hasn't been any but don't take everything you read as 100% fact. Don't forget either Monaco are not a little club going up for the first time, remember Juventus when they went down and came back up? Monaco have won the Ligue 1 7 times and in 2004 picked up that pretty big coffee cup the Champions League.

Don't get me wrong some players will move to a club purely for the money and no other reason, others maybe not, just don't assume that every player moves purely for money and when players do get a better wage then fair play to them the lucky ********, the clubs don't have to meet the players demands so blame the club if you want to have a pop at anyone.

Kris Commons left for Celtic he was only going for the money remember? forget the fact not only did he most likely get a pay rise but also played in the Champions League and not doing too bad either.

[Srg]

Is this thread pretty much telling me I can't blame Sammon for being ****, just because he has little more ability than what a curly wurly is worth, let alone £1.2m?