Bob The Badger

That is actually the very definition of anecdotal evidence - personal stories.
I run Facebook groups with about 10k people in them and I have maybe another 10k people follow me on social media and I literally don't know anybody who had a severe problem. I'm not saying that means they don't exist, I'm sure they do, but I'd say your experience is incredibly unusual. If we ll knew a couple of people who'd died and two more who almost did nobody would be having the vaccine, especially not doctors who know that it poses that level of danger.
I know my wife thinks all NHS staff should be vaccinated and so do her immediate colleagues. It was the same in the US before we moved back. She's never met a medical professional who isn't in favour of that. Although that's anecdotal and I'm sure there are some.
My wife already has to have 5 vaccinations to be able to work in the NHS, so I'm not sure why adding another is any different.
Can you explain that?
It seems to get swept under the carpet by people lashing out at this.
She had a patient last month who has colorectal cancer and needed some procedure or other. He not only refused to be vaccinated but wouldn't let them test him. Their guidelines are not to treat people like that, but they did. They cleared the area at a huge amount of time that then wasn't spent with other patients, removed all nonessential staff and treated the selfish ducker because they recognise their duty of care and they're professionals.
Things like that that are happening get missed by people because they're not really that newsworthy, but it's that kind of collateral damage that is seriously hurting the NHS and is born out of selfishness. There were no clinical grounds for the man not having the jab or at least being tested.
I'm against making vaccines mandatory through society, but if somebody wants to work with highly vulnerable people then grow up and get vaccinated.

Or storm off in a huff.
 

That is actually the very definition of anecdotal evidence - personal stories.
I run Facebook groups with about 10k people in them and I have maybe another 10k people follow me on social media and I literally don't know anybody who had a severe problem. I'm not saying that means they don't exist, I'm sure they do, but I'd say your experience is incredibly unusual. If we ll knew a couple of people who'd died and two more who almost did nobody would be having the vaccine, especially not doctors who know that it poses that level of danger.
I know my wife thinks all NHS staff should be vaccinated and so do her immediate colleagues. It was the same in the US before we moved back. She's never met a medical professional who isn't in favour of that. Although that's anecdotal and I'm sure there are some.
My wife already has to have 5 vaccinations to be able to work in the NHS, so I'm not sure why adding another is any different.
Can you explain that?
It seems to get swept under the carpet by people lashing out at this.
She had a patient last month who has colorectal cancer and needed some procedure or other. He not only refused to be vaccinated but wouldn't let them test him. Their guidelines are not to treat people like that, but they did. They cleared the area at a huge amount of time that then wasn't spent with other patients, removed all nonessential staff and treated the selfish ducker because they recognise their duty of care and they're professionals.
Things like that that are happening get missed by people because they're not really that newsworthy, but it's that kind of collateral damage that is seriously hurting the NHS and is born out of selfishness. There were no clinical grounds for the man not having the jab or at least being tested.
I'm against making vaccines mandatory through society, but if somebody wants to work with highly vulnerable people then grow up and get vaccinated.

Or storm off in a huff.
 

BTW @Carl Sagan my wife's best friend left Romania during the Ceausescu regime (although in fairness she was very young, it was her parents who left and took her and her sister to the US), my Grandfather left Poland when the Nazis invaded and the enlisted in the Navy, and I have a client who left China after being targeted as a dangerous individual (because she was a women who wanted to be climber and scale peaks over seas) and they all say 'thank duck we weren't born in Wales' .
 

I dunno  if I had a vote I'd like it to end tomorrow,
My mum and dad didn't get a vote on how long WWII went on for, they just managed a situation that was crappy for everyone.  
If only they'd been asked it could have ended sooner. 

It's probably fear and/or ignorance.
And who cares if you have seen an extreme example?
That is so utterly meaningless.
It's like me saying I saw a guy shouting and swearing at the security guy in Tesco's that it's all fake before storming (which I did about 5 or 6 weeks ago and still have part of on camera), so what?
I doubt if you'd seen 20 people without masks going about there business that you would be sharing that nugget of information. 
I walked my dogs this morning and it didn't rain even though I put my waterproofs on.
It never rains in Cornwall, clearly.
 
 

Part of me wished I could type faster and more accurately, but then part of me thinks that would just give you more to ignore.
Do politicians deny smoking and drinking are unhealthy because they may partake in either, or both.
Is Boris saying " there's nothing unhealthy about being fat, look at me, I'm fat and I'm not dead'?
Do you know anybody terrified of sugar even though it kills millions of people every year?
This isn't a case of being terrified, this is a case of putting public health first.
I can't stand Johnson and I can see he is in a no-win situation with half his Party hating him. So I kinda think he maybe realises we're in a hole here.
I dread to think what the right would be saying of we had a labour PM. The country would be in civil war.

There are people in this thread who think we should all get doubled jabbed, boosted and wear masks in public.
If we're wrong  and it's not necessary, you have a slightly achy arm and a you have to enunciate more clearly when talking in a public space.
If those of you that think it's unnecessary are wrong, hundreds or thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people die (potentially you) and this drags on forever.
This is such a ridiculous argument to me.
Get vaccinated, wear a mask and then if this is all a waste of time, mock the duck out of us afterwards for you being slightly inconvenienced as opposed to being dead.

The problem, or rather one of them, with the virus is that it's invisible and not easy to quantify, understand or predict.
During WWII people banded together because they could see and understand a common enemy. It made sense, it was obvious what they wanted and how they were going to get it. Sticking together made sense.
At the moment governments across all ideological boundaries are banding together in their insiatsnce that this is really serious, but the people they govern don't quite understand it so many aren't supporting them.
They cannot see the enemy and they flat our don't understand the science, so they are rebelling.
That isn't to suggest that scientists fully understand the science because it's very early, just that those studying it are aware of the potential implications if we bat on regardless.
To think this is a conspiracy is anywhere on the spectrum of flat out moronic to being paranoid, to simply not understanding how many people can keep a secret.
Fauci said right at the beginning of this  (and I paraphrase) that he's rather be considered a fraud for over exaggerating and nothing happens, than negligent because he said nothing.
Pretty much every government and serious scientist on the face of the planet is saying 'seriously, we could have a huge problem on our hands here and it may get a lot worse' but still some people with zero scientific background and with no relevant information that contracdicts that other than a hunch or two are effectively saying....

 

Part of me wished I could type faster and more accurately, but then part of me thinks that would just give you more to ignore.
Do politicians deny smoking and drinking are unhealthy because they may partake in either, or both.
Is Boris saying " there's nothing unhealthy about being fat, look at me, I'm fat and I'm not dead'?
Do you know anybody terrified of sugar even though it kills millions of people every year?
This isn't a case of being terrified, this is a case of putting public health first.
I can't stand Johnson and I can see he is in a no-win situation with half his Party hating him. So I kinda think he maybe realises we're in a hole here.
I dread to think what the right would be saying of we had a labour PM. The country would be in civil war.

Good grief, I've drifted into a junior school debating competition. 

There are people in this thread who think we should all get doubled jabbed, boosted and wear masks in public.
If we're wrong  and it's not necessary, you have a slightly achy arm and a you have to enunciate more clearly when talking in a public space.
If those of you that think it's unnecessary are wrong, hundreds or thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people die (potentially you) and this drags on forever.
This is such a ridiculous argument to me.
Get vaccinated, wear a mask and then if this is all a waste of time, mock the duck out of us afterwards for you being slightly inconvenienced as opposed to being dead.

There are people in this thread who think we should all get doubled jabbed, boosted and wear masks in public.
If we're wrong  and it's not necessary, you have a slightly achy arm and a you have to enunciate more clearly when talking in a public space.
If those of you that think it's unnecessary are wrong, hundreds or thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people die (potentially you) and this drags on forever.
This is such a ridiculous argument to me.
Get vaccinated, wear a mask and then if this is all a waste of time, mock the duck out of us afterwards for you being slightly inconvenienced as opposed to being dead.

The problem, or rather one of them, with the virus is that it's invisible and not easy to quantify, understand or predict.
During WWII people banded together because they could see and understand a common enemy. It made sense, it was obvious what they wanted and how they were going to get it. Sticking together made sense.
At the moment governments across all ideological boundaries are banding together in their insiatsnce that this is really serious, but the people they govern don't quite understand it so many aren't supporting them.
They cannot see the enemy and they flat our don't understand the science, so they are rebelling.
That isn't to suggest that scientists fully understand the science because it's very early, just that those studying it are aware of the potential implications if we bat on regardless.
To think this is a conspiracy is anywhere on the spectrum of flat out moronic to being paranoid, to simply not understanding how many people can keep a secret.
Fauci said right at the beginning of this  (and I paraphrase) that he's rather be considered a fraud for over exaggerating and nothing happens, than negligent because he said nothing.
Pretty much every government and serious scientist on the face of the planet is saying 'seriously, we could have a huge problem on our hands here and it may get a lot worse' but still some people with zero scientific background and with no relevant information that contracdicts that other than a hunch or two are effectively saying....

 

BTW @Carl Sagan my wife's best friend left Romania during the Ceausescu regime (although in fairness she was very young, it was her parents who left and took her and her sister to the US), my Grandfather left Poland when the Nazis invaded and the enlisted in the Navy, and I have a client who left China after being targeted as a dangerous individual (because she was a women who wanted to be climber and scale peaks over seas) and they all say 'thank duck we weren't born in Wales' .
 

Scotland and Wales have far-left authoritarian governments, do they?
Uh-huh.
And we fall into two groups of people like you who are vaxxed and trying to help the economy (you're such a trooper) by going out and people who are fearful who are sting at home, do we?
Uh-huh.
And the scientists don't know what's coming next in a new pandemic?
Uh-huh.
No, Wales and Scotland are not far left authoritarian governments. Are you even being serious with that, or taking the pee?
No, we don't fall into two groups, why would somebody claiming to be scientific make such a claim?
Seriously man, that's ludicrous.  I for one am double vaxxed and have had my booster and I go out as and when needed.
And you claim to be scientific?
Could it be that scientists don't know what to expect in the same way that they never know what to expect with something brand new.
Isn't the advancement of science based around not knowing what to expect?

I though modeling, testing, looking at data that you will sometimes get wrong to begin with, because ya know, it's early days,and then adapting  is/was the bedrock of science.
Isn't science a way of thinking?
Most disappointing comment I have ever read on this forum...literally. 
And I mean literally in the old sense when literal meant literal and not metaphorical.
You lost me way earlier than you lost @GboroRam.
 

The problem, or rather one of them, with the virus is that it's invisible and not easy to quantify, understand or predict.
During WWII people banded together because they could see and understand a common enemy. It made sense, it was obvious what they wanted and how they were going to get it. Sticking together made sense.
At the moment governments across all ideological boundaries are banding together in their insiatsnce that this is really serious, but the people they govern don't quite understand it so many aren't supporting them.
They cannot see the enemy and they flat our don't understand the science, so they are rebelling.
That isn't to suggest that scientists fully understand the science because it's very early, just that those studying it are aware of the potential implications if we bat on regardless.
To think this is a conspiracy is anywhere on the spectrum of flat out moronic to being paranoid, to simply not understanding how many people can keep a secret.
Fauci said right at the beginning of this  (and I paraphrase) that he's rather be considered a fraud for over exaggerating and nothing happens, than negligent because he said nothing.
Pretty much every government and serious scientist on the face of the planet is saying 'seriously, we could have a huge problem on our hands here and it may get a lot worse' but still some people with zero scientific background and with no relevant information that contracdicts that other than a hunch or two are effectively saying....

 

The media?
Do you even know what the media is?
It's literally thousands of outlets and you just lumped them all together.
This isn't 1955, or even 1995, you know.
All you did with that response is shout from the rooftops that you have no clue how people get their news anymore and presume everybody is like you.
Newsflash: They're not. In FACT, most people don't consume their news in the way you're whining about.
Welcome to 2021.
 

BTW @Carl Sagan my wife's best friend left Romania during the Ceausescu regime (although in fairness she was very young, it was her parents who left and took her and her sister to the US), my Grandfather left Poland when the Nazis invaded and the enlisted in the Navy, and I have a client who left China after being targeted as a dangerous individual (because she was a women who wanted to be climber and scale peaks over seas) and they all say 'thank duck we weren't born in Wales' .
 

Scotland and Wales have far-left authoritarian governments, do they?
Uh-huh.
And we fall into two groups of people like you who are vaxxed and trying to help the economy (you're such a trooper) by going out and people who are fearful who are sting at home, do we?
Uh-huh.
And the scientists don't know what's coming next in a new pandemic?
Uh-huh.
No, Wales and Scotland are not far left authoritarian governments. Are you even being serious with that, or taking the pee?
No, we don't fall into two groups, why would somebody claiming to be scientific make such a claim?
Seriously man, that's ludicrous.  I for one am double vaxxed and have had my booster and I go out as and when needed.
And you claim to be scientific?
Could it be that scientists don't know what to expect in the same way that they never know what to expect with something brand new.
Isn't the advancement of science based around not knowing what to expect?

I though modeling, testing, looking at data that you will sometimes get wrong to begin with, because ya know, it's early days,and then adapting  is/was the bedrock of science.
Isn't science a way of thinking?
Most disappointing comment I have ever read on this forum...literally. 
And I mean literally in the old sense when literal meant literal and not metaphorical.
You lost me way earlier than you lost @GboroRam.
 

The media?
Do you even know what the media is?
It's literally thousands of outlets and you just lumped them all together.
This isn't 1955, or even 1995, you know.
All you did with that response is shout from the rooftops that you have no clue how people get their news anymore and presume everybody is like you.
Newsflash: They're not. In FACT, most people don't consume their news in the way you're whining about.
Welcome to 2021.
 

I am a modeller.. Not a financial modeller or health or whatever. 
One thing we always have problems with is explaining the results to 'laypeople' (for the lack of a better word) and the results being misused. Models are only ever going to be good as how well they are calibrated and how good any assumptions are made. The models I build are much less complex than those used to predict policy impacts on a worldwide pandemic and much easier to sense check the models response. 
Models are best used (in my experience) to explore different scenarios to find a plausible range of scenarios rather than make precise predictions. I think the charts that have been shared publically have been a bit unhelpful. Ultimately its a political decision whatever course of action is taken and modelling can only ever be part of the decision making progress. 
At the start of the pandemic there were emails from the government asking for volunteers to join the modelling effort. So how much experience there is globally, is debatable - after all the virus is/was 'novel'. Its a hard job and I expect the modellers have been professional and rational in their approach.. Once the reports out the door to the superiors, how it's used and presented is out of their hands. 
In reality, cases are really starting to take off now which worries me as I have a load of commitments before travelling across the country for Christmas. Getting covid will mean another Christmas away from family. 
I suspect that there will be no more restrictions on meeting others unless there is a drastic worsening of the situation in the next 3/4 days. 

BTW @Carl Sagan my wife's best friend left Romania during the Ceausescu regime (although in fairness she was very young, it was her parents who left and took her and her sister to the US), my Grandfather left Poland when the Nazis invaded and the enlisted in the Navy, and I have a client who left China after being targeted as a dangerous individual (because she was a women who wanted to be climber and scale peaks over seas) and they all say 'thank duck we weren't born in Wales' .
 

I was with you but that's laughable