PistoldPete

The short(ish) answer is twofold.
The losses sustained when Mel was spending too much were costs that he had budgeted for, so sustainable in the short term. But covid losses were not within his budget.
 
Also on a legal point, causation is decided by the proximate events , not the historic chain of events that preceded the event of administration.       


 

No I think this one will be much quicker. It was with Wigan.  

The short(ish) answer is twofold.
The losses sustained when Mel was spending too much were costs that he had budgeted for, so sustainable in the short term. But covid losses were not within his budget.
 
Also on a legal point, causation is decided by the proximate events , not the historic chain of events that preceded the event of administration.       


 

No you choose to disagree.  
Put it this way, do you think that covid has finished with us yet? We are still affected by it financially, and we may still find no buyers as a result of the current situation. How much punishment do you think EFL should be allowed to dish out to us for losing money because of covid? Banishment from the League and extinction, as they did with Bury?
 
Is there no limit to the amount of punishment you think EFL should give us, because you think to resist shows a lack of "class"?
 
  

I’m glad the administrators are appealing the deduction, it may not work, but I think it has a good chance when I read the rules on the EFL site.
If they have the proof of the bits in bold being true, and I’d have thought the accounts would show this very clearly, then why wouldn’t you appeal it?
This is different to Wigan’s situation that keeps being mentioned, their owner bought the club during Covid, you cannot argue they did their due diligence when we were already in lockdown when they purchased the club, they at the very least would have known the possibility of it continuing at that point.
I think you have to ask yourself, prior to Covid would you ever have anticipated what happened? Around 18 months of no one being in Pride Park, losing two thirds of your income but still having to try and cover all of your outgoings? I know I wouldn’t. How can you possibly have a contingency plan that covers that large an amount?
Yes, other clubs have lost money too due to Covid, but this isn’t about them, this is about how it affected us and us only, and is subject to the rules above. I think it’s best to ignore the noise from fans of other clubs.

Wrong again, it is a common misunderstanding about the legal issue of "causation. It is the other things (eg Derby's historic overspending) that are "factors"... COVID was the cause of Derby 's administration.. unless there was something else that could have prevented us from going into admin... eg selling a player for £26 million to pay the tax bill.  
 

No I think this one will be much quicker. It was with Wigan.  

The short(ish) answer is twofold.
The losses sustained when Mel was spending too much were costs that he had budgeted for, so sustainable in the short term. But covid losses were not within his budget.
 
Also on a legal point, causation is decided by the proximate events , not the historic chain of events that preceded the event of administration.       


 

Cant speak for anyone else however…..  
Now the Administrators have decided to appeal the -12points inflicted on DCFC, I feel quite confident that they’ve had the time to go through our accounts and decided in their Professional opinion that (due to COVID and our previous accounts and income in the seasons prior to COVID) we have a strong enough case to call “Force Majure” on our administration.
Why else would they take this course of action if there was little/no chance of success.  
These people are accountants after all and they won’t have taken this course of action unless they felt we had a very strong argument. 

No you choose to disagree.  
Put it this way, do you think that covid has finished with us yet? We are still affected by it financially, and we may still find no buyers as a result of the current situation. How much punishment do you think EFL should be allowed to dish out to us for losing money because of covid? Banishment from the League and extinction, as they did with Bury?
 
Is there no limit to the amount of punishment you think EFL should give us, because you think to resist shows a lack of "class"?
 
  

Since Lockdown, Derby sold Bogle, Lowe, Bennett, Evans, Holmes, Whittaker and Gordon, for combined fees well in excess of £10 million. Plus saving their wages (seven players there). Didn't renew contracts for Martin, Huddlestone, Carson, Waghorn, Marriott, Malone, Jozefzoon, and Wisdom, and only retained Curtis Davies on massively reduced wages. Huge savings in the wage bill there... sixteen players I have mentioned plus many more.  
We only missed relegation by one point.  If we had cut back any more last season we would have been relegated with severe consequences for revenue this year ... yet still had wages to pay for Lawrence, Bielik and co .. probably gone into administration in the summer.
We signed nobody this summer except for free agents on League Ones salaries. Our most valuable players,  Bielik and Knight were both injured during the summer so unsaleable.     
I think there is a strong case we did everything we reasonably could to cut costs.  
 

Since Lockdown, Derby sold Bogle, Lowe, Bennett, Evans, Holmes, Whittaker and Gordon, for combined fees well in excess of £10 million. Plus saving their wages (seven players there). Didn't renew contracts for Martin, Huddlestone, Carson, Waghorn, Marriott, Malone, Jozefzoon, and Wisdom, and only retained Curtis Davies on massively reduced wages. Huge savings in the wage bill there... sixteen players I have mentioned plus many more.  
We only missed relegation by one point.  If we had cut back any more last season we would have been relegated with severe consequences for revenue this year ... yet still had wages to pay for Lawrence, Bielik and co .. probably gone into administration in the summer.
We signed nobody this summer except for free agents on League Ones salaries. Our most valuable players,  Bielik and Knight were both injured during the summer so unsaleable.     
I think there is a strong case we did everything we reasonably could to cut costs.  
 

No you choose to disagree.  
Put it this way, do you think that covid has finished with us yet? We are still affected by it financially, and we may still find no buyers as a result of the current situation. How much punishment do you think EFL should be allowed to dish out to us for losing money because of covid? Banishment from the League and extinction, as they did with Bury?
 
Is there no limit to the amount of punishment you think EFL should give us, because you think to resist shows a lack of "class"?
 
  

We've been quietly taking 'our punishment' for 2 years now! For our supposed crimes and misdemeanours I'd venture we've paid a massive price already and yet you and some others feel we should just lie down and take even more.
Tell me, what's classy about being a lamb to the slaughter, because for the life of me, I don't see your point. 

I don't really understand this story.
 
My understanding is that the 12 point deduction is an all or nothing thing. According to the rules as I understand them, If covid was the most proximate cause of the administraton then the deduction should be zero  points. If it was not then, it should be 12 points. No other ifs or  buts or mitigating factors that could reduce it in half. 
 
Unless .. we are saying .. we haven't got time to fight this through the courts or tribunals, let's do a deal now and get certainty.  
 
Also EFL asking for our books over six years.. haven't they had them already?   
 
 

Well first of all I think Derby (second highest attendance in the Championship in 2019-20) were most affected by covid than any other team (the team with highest attendance Leeds were promoted to Premier League so got access to a new  money tree) . Many other bigger teams were in receipt of parachute money (which did not reduce during covid) so were also much less affected. Smaller teams not affected so much as they were not relying on big gates anyway, so had smaller budgets. Also of course there is the covid loan that (for disputed reasons)  was denied Derby but not most other teams.
secondly, the club was up for sale, and yes that was probably because Morris was running out of money due to historic overspending. But like I say how do we know that a buyer would not have been found if covid had not come along?  
 

Well first of all I think Derby (second highest attendance in the Championship in 2019-20) were most affected by covid than any other team (the team with highest attendance Leeds were promoted to Premier League so got access to a new  money tree) . Many other bigger teams were in receipt of parachute money (which did not reduce during covid) so were also much less affected. Smaller teams not affected so much as they were not relying on big gates anyway, so had smaller budgets. Also of course there is the covid loan that (for disputed reasons)  was denied Derby but not most other teams.
secondly, the club was up for sale, and yes that was probably because Morris was running out of money due to historic overspending. But like I say how do we know that a buyer would not have been found if covid had not come along?  
 

Administrators have said they are aiming to reduce current and future penalties. Any future penalties would be for P & s and I think it’s a fair point in mitigation that we didn’t knowingly break p & s

I thought on mel’s stTement at the time it was obvious the reasons why it was scripted that way… not Mel just making excuses. 
 
both Mel and the administrators have cited COVID and there are good reasons for that, not least because it’s true.

I thought on mel’s stTement at the time it was obvious the reasons why it was scripted that way… not Mel just making excuses. 
 
both Mel and the administrators have cited COVID and there are good reasons for that, not least because it’s true.

Well first of all I think Derby (second highest attendance in the Championship in 2019-20) were most affected by covid than any other team (the team with highest attendance Leeds were promoted to Premier League so got access to a new  money tree) . Many other bigger teams were in receipt of parachute money (which did not reduce during covid) so were also much less affected. Smaller teams not affected so much as they were not relying on big gates anyway, so had smaller budgets. Also of course there is the covid loan that (for disputed reasons)  was denied Derby but not most other teams.
secondly, the club was up for sale, and yes that was probably because Morris was running out of money due to historic overspending. But like I say how do we know that a buyer would not have been found if covid had not come along?  
 

I thought on mel’s stTement at the time it was obvious the reasons why it was scripted that way… not Mel just making excuses. 
 
both Mel and the administrators have cited COVID and there are good reasons for that, not least because it’s true.

I thought on mel’s stTement at the time it was obvious the reasons why it was scripted that way… not Mel just making excuses. 
 
both Mel and the administrators have cited COVID and there are good reasons for that, not least because it’s true.

I thought on mel’s stTement at the time it was obvious the reasons why it was scripted that way… not Mel just making excuses. 
 
both Mel and the administrators have cited COVID and there are good reasons for that, not least because it’s true.

Administrators have said they are aiming to reduce current and future penalties. Any future penalties would be for P & s and I think it’s a fair point in mitigation that we didn’t knowingly break p & s