WilkoRam

Always felt like FFP or P&S do nothing to tackle the problem they were set out to achieve.  They were implemented to stop teams overspending, gambling on success but failing and crumbling.  It hasn’t prevented this, it’s just made it more of a gamble. In the Championship, overspend and pull it off and you get promoted and face no punishment, but fail and you’re left in a worse position than you would have been without FFP. Before you’d be in a financial state, now you’re in a financial state, face a fine, transfer embargo and points deduction.  I’m sure these are intended to act as a deterrent so that people stick within the rules, however, they won’t and they’ll constantly try and find loopholes due to the lack of a level playing field. 
 
a fairer way to level things out would be to set a transfer budget that all clubs have to stay within. You can spend more than say £20m on players in a year and every club has an overall wage limit to stick to. That way, even those with parachute payments get no unfair advantage as they have the same wage and transfer budget. That said, they’ll need to ensure contracts given in the prem at suitably structured to include a wage reduction should they get relegated. 
 
I am no expert so feel free to rip the idea to shreds if it’s actually nonsense. 

or are they still fighting?

Yeah but that fish once said he disagreed with drinking alcohol and now I demand he acknowledges to me his hypocrisy!

Stop wasting your time bickering like 5 year olds in class about stuff in the past.
"Miss......Miss........I'm right, he's wrong! "...........................
None of us can change history. Our club with our support can change and will change for the better.
I don't worry anymore...........we stayed up, we still have a club to support and we start again with or without a point deduction.
We go again......fans get back in the grounds, home and away, we sing, we drink, we are merry, happy and proud to be D.C.F.C.
We will have a blank slate eventually and some of us will carry on honoured to stand firm with the Ram on skin, flag and shirt.
ROONEY...........ROONEY.............

I’ve not gone through all the pages on this but can everyone chill the f out?
FWIW I thought at the time that Cocu was underachieving, in hindsight I was probably wrong and rated the squad too highly, didn’t appreciate the reality of our financial problems and how much his hands were tied in terms of players. Cocu with a budget (or even with key players fit) may well have been a different story. I’ll admit my opinion has changed in that respect. It’s partly due to that that I think Rooney should have time managing here with (fingers crossed) none of the issues that have plagued us for over a season. There’s been good and bad with Rooney, he’s made some good tactical decisions before and during games and also some stinkers but then a lot of managers do. It’s a fine line between success and failure, Lampard got us into the play-off final but would he have done without the transfers and loans he secured? 
 
We’re asking Rooney to make us dinner with whatever we have left in the fridge and hoping he comes up with a delicious meal we can all enjoy. It’s unlikely to happen, some items are past their best, others don’t go with each other having been purchased for difference recipes. Let him go shopping with a meal in mind and we’re likely to have a better meal and if not then we can call him a rubbish cook. 
(Sorry, I love an analogy)

I’ve not gone through all the pages on this but can everyone chill the f out?
FWIW I thought at the time that Cocu was underachieving, in hindsight I was probably wrong and rated the squad too highly, didn’t appreciate the reality of our financial problems and how much his hands were tied in terms of players. Cocu with a budget (or even with key players fit) may well have been a different story. I’ll admit my opinion has changed in that respect. It’s partly due to that that I think Rooney should have time managing here with (fingers crossed) none of the issues that have plagued us for over a season. There’s been good and bad with Rooney, he’s made some good tactical decisions before and during games and also some stinkers but then a lot of managers do. It’s a fine line between success and failure, Lampard got us into the play-off final but would he have done without the transfers and loans he secured? 
 
We’re asking Rooney to make us dinner with whatever we have left in the fridge and hoping he comes up with a delicious meal we can all enjoy. It’s unlikely to happen, some items are past their best, others don’t go with each other having been purchased for difference recipes. Let him go shopping with a meal in mind and we’re likely to have a better meal and if not then we can call him a rubbish cook. 
(Sorry, I love an analogy)

I’ve not gone through all the pages on this but can everyone chill the f out?
FWIW I thought at the time that Cocu was underachieving, in hindsight I was probably wrong and rated the squad too highly, didn’t appreciate the reality of our financial problems and how much his hands were tied in terms of players. Cocu with a budget (or even with key players fit) may well have been a different story. I’ll admit my opinion has changed in that respect. It’s partly due to that that I think Rooney should have time managing here with (fingers crossed) none of the issues that have plagued us for over a season. There’s been good and bad with Rooney, he’s made some good tactical decisions before and during games and also some stinkers but then a lot of managers do. It’s a fine line between success and failure, Lampard got us into the play-off final but would he have done without the transfers and loans he secured? 
 
We’re asking Rooney to make us dinner with whatever we have left in the fridge and hoping he comes up with a delicious meal we can all enjoy. It’s unlikely to happen, some items are past their best, others don’t go with each other having been purchased for difference recipes. Let him go shopping with a meal in mind and we’re likely to have a better meal and if not then we can call him a rubbish cook. 
(Sorry, I love an analogy)

I’ve not gone through all the pages on this but can everyone chill the f out?
FWIW I thought at the time that Cocu was underachieving, in hindsight I was probably wrong and rated the squad too highly, didn’t appreciate the reality of our financial problems and how much his hands were tied in terms of players. Cocu with a budget (or even with key players fit) may well have been a different story. I’ll admit my opinion has changed in that respect. It’s partly due to that that I think Rooney should have time managing here with (fingers crossed) none of the issues that have plagued us for over a season. There’s been good and bad with Rooney, he’s made some good tactical decisions before and during games and also some stinkers but then a lot of managers do. It’s a fine line between success and failure, Lampard got us into the play-off final but would he have done without the transfers and loans he secured? 
 
We’re asking Rooney to make us dinner with whatever we have left in the fridge and hoping he comes up with a delicious meal we can all enjoy. It’s unlikely to happen, some items are past their best, others don’t go with each other having been purchased for difference recipes. Let him go shopping with a meal in mind and we’re likely to have a better meal and if not then we can call him a rubbish cook. 
(Sorry, I love an analogy)

I’ve not gone through all the pages on this but can everyone chill the f out?
FWIW I thought at the time that Cocu was underachieving, in hindsight I was probably wrong and rated the squad too highly, didn’t appreciate the reality of our financial problems and how much his hands were tied in terms of players. Cocu with a budget (or even with key players fit) may well have been a different story. I’ll admit my opinion has changed in that respect. It’s partly due to that that I think Rooney should have time managing here with (fingers crossed) none of the issues that have plagued us for over a season. There’s been good and bad with Rooney, he’s made some good tactical decisions before and during games and also some stinkers but then a lot of managers do. It’s a fine line between success and failure, Lampard got us into the play-off final but would he have done without the transfers and loans he secured? 
 
We’re asking Rooney to make us dinner with whatever we have left in the fridge and hoping he comes up with a delicious meal we can all enjoy. It’s unlikely to happen, some items are past their best, others don’t go with each other having been purchased for difference recipes. Let him go shopping with a meal in mind and we’re likely to have a better meal and if not then we can call him a rubbish cook. 
(Sorry, I love an analogy)

I’ve not gone through all the pages on this but can everyone chill the f out?
FWIW I thought at the time that Cocu was underachieving, in hindsight I was probably wrong and rated the squad too highly, didn’t appreciate the reality of our financial problems and how much his hands were tied in terms of players. Cocu with a budget (or even with key players fit) may well have been a different story. I’ll admit my opinion has changed in that respect. It’s partly due to that that I think Rooney should have time managing here with (fingers crossed) none of the issues that have plagued us for over a season. There’s been good and bad with Rooney, he’s made some good tactical decisions before and during games and also some stinkers but then a lot of managers do. It’s a fine line between success and failure, Lampard got us into the play-off final but would he have done without the transfers and loans he secured? 
 
We’re asking Rooney to make us dinner with whatever we have left in the fridge and hoping he comes up with a delicious meal we can all enjoy. It’s unlikely to happen, some items are past their best, others don’t go with each other having been purchased for difference recipes. Let him go shopping with a meal in mind and we’re likely to have a better meal and if not then we can call him a rubbish cook. 
(Sorry, I love an analogy)

I’ve not gone through all the pages on this but can everyone chill the f out?
FWIW I thought at the time that Cocu was underachieving, in hindsight I was probably wrong and rated the squad too highly, didn’t appreciate the reality of our financial problems and how much his hands were tied in terms of players. Cocu with a budget (or even with key players fit) may well have been a different story. I’ll admit my opinion has changed in that respect. It’s partly due to that that I think Rooney should have time managing here with (fingers crossed) none of the issues that have plagued us for over a season. There’s been good and bad with Rooney, he’s made some good tactical decisions before and during games and also some stinkers but then a lot of managers do. It’s a fine line between success and failure, Lampard got us into the play-off final but would he have done without the transfers and loans he secured? 
 
We’re asking Rooney to make us dinner with whatever we have left in the fridge and hoping he comes up with a delicious meal we can all enjoy. It’s unlikely to happen, some items are past their best, others don’t go with each other having been purchased for difference recipes. Let him go shopping with a meal in mind and we’re likely to have a better meal and if not then we can call him a rubbish cook. 
(Sorry, I love an analogy)

No, he’s guilty of not running a business properly. It’s alright saying “he gave us what we wanted” but he shouldn’t he should do what’s right for the stability of the club. If my kids ask for sweets all the time and I give them loads as a result, they then end up with health issues and no teeth. I don’t think “all I’m guilty of is giving them what they wanted” would wash in terms of responsible parenting. 

I find it interesting that people are saying “It’s easy to criticise in hindsight” - I’m not sure what other sight we have in this situation. We don’t sit within the board and know the financial situation until times like this. We’re football fans who enjoy watching the game and support our team, I’m not sure when I needed accountancy qualifications and to find time to look through the clubs annual accounts in order to make sure I was up to date with how we were being run and could criticise prior to disaster hitting. 
 
Also every other aspect of football gets criticised after the event. Managers and the players are fair game for criticism post event. They tried to do their best for the club but if they make a mistake fans will be critical of them. We’re not allowed to do that with the owner though because he’s a fan? If he owns the club it’s his job to run it in a sustainable way and it appears he hasn’t done that and we’re in trouble. I’m not sure why fans can’t be critical of the mess he’s made when it’s now come to light. Were we critical of the money spent on signings at the time? No, but we aren’t privy to the details of it or our financial situation.  none of us could have said “you’re spending £Xm on player Y? Well if you look at our net income and our current expenditure, taking into account his wages over his contract as well, that puts us in a tricky financial position. I don’t think we should sign him” - because we don’t have that info. 
 
Mel may we’ll have had the best intentions and if we’d got promoted nobody would have criticised but it appears to have been a gamble that didn’t pay off. Imagine I went to the casino with all my families savings with the intention of winning more and setting us up for life. If I come back quids in then happy days but if I lose it all I doubt my family would go “well your heart was in the right place” they’d rightly say “you did what? So we now risk losing our house etc and we’re in a worse financial position? What have you done?” - there’s a responsibility with the owners to ensure there’s still a club and not just blow on the dice, give them a roll and hope for the best.

No, he’s guilty of not running a business properly. It’s alright saying “he gave us what we wanted” but he shouldn’t he should do what’s right for the stability of the club. If my kids ask for sweets all the time and I give them loads as a result, they then end up with health issues and no teeth. I don’t think “all I’m guilty of is giving them what they wanted” would wash in terms of responsible parenting. 

I find it interesting that people are saying “It’s easy to criticise in hindsight” - I’m not sure what other sight we have in this situation. We don’t sit within the board and know the financial situation until times like this. We’re football fans who enjoy watching the game and support our team, I’m not sure when I needed accountancy qualifications and to find time to look through the clubs annual accounts in order to make sure I was up to date with how we were being run and could criticise prior to disaster hitting. 
 
Also every other aspect of football gets criticised after the event. Managers and the players are fair game for criticism post event. They tried to do their best for the club but if they make a mistake fans will be critical of them. We’re not allowed to do that with the owner though because he’s a fan? If he owns the club it’s his job to run it in a sustainable way and it appears he hasn’t done that and we’re in trouble. I’m not sure why fans can’t be critical of the mess he’s made when it’s now come to light. Were we critical of the money spent on signings at the time? No, but we aren’t privy to the details of it or our financial situation.  none of us could have said “you’re spending £Xm on player Y? Well if you look at our net income and our current expenditure, taking into account his wages over his contract as well, that puts us in a tricky financial position. I don’t think we should sign him” - because we don’t have that info. 
 
Mel may we’ll have had the best intentions and if we’d got promoted nobody would have criticised but it appears to have been a gamble that didn’t pay off. Imagine I went to the casino with all my families savings with the intention of winning more and setting us up for life. If I come back quids in then happy days but if I lose it all I doubt my family would go “well your heart was in the right place” they’d rightly say “you did what? So we now risk losing our house etc and we’re in a worse financial position? What have you done?” - there’s a responsibility with the owners to ensure there’s still a club and not just blow on the dice, give them a roll and hope for the best.

I find it interesting that people are saying “It’s easy to criticise in hindsight” - I’m not sure what other sight we have in this situation. We don’t sit within the board and know the financial situation until times like this. We’re football fans who enjoy watching the game and support our team, I’m not sure when I needed accountancy qualifications and to find time to look through the clubs annual accounts in order to make sure I was up to date with how we were being run and could criticise prior to disaster hitting. 
 
Also every other aspect of football gets criticised after the event. Managers and the players are fair game for criticism post event. They tried to do their best for the club but if they make a mistake fans will be critical of them. We’re not allowed to do that with the owner though because he’s a fan? If he owns the club it’s his job to run it in a sustainable way and it appears he hasn’t done that and we’re in trouble. I’m not sure why fans can’t be critical of the mess he’s made when it’s now come to light. Were we critical of the money spent on signings at the time? No, but we aren’t privy to the details of it or our financial situation.  none of us could have said “you’re spending £Xm on player Y? Well if you look at our net income and our current expenditure, taking into account his wages over his contract as well, that puts us in a tricky financial position. I don’t think we should sign him” - because we don’t have that info. 
 
Mel may we’ll have had the best intentions and if we’d got promoted nobody would have criticised but it appears to have been a gamble that didn’t pay off. Imagine I went to the casino with all my families savings with the intention of winning more and setting us up for life. If I come back quids in then happy days but if I lose it all I doubt my family would go “well your heart was in the right place” they’d rightly say “you did what? So we now risk losing our house etc and we’re in a worse financial position? What have you done?” - there’s a responsibility with the owners to ensure there’s still a club and not just blow on the dice, give them a roll and hope for the best.

I find it interesting that people are saying “It’s easy to criticise in hindsight” - I’m not sure what other sight we have in this situation. We don’t sit within the board and know the financial situation until times like this. We’re football fans who enjoy watching the game and support our team, I’m not sure when I needed accountancy qualifications and to find time to look through the clubs annual accounts in order to make sure I was up to date with how we were being run and could criticise prior to disaster hitting. 
 
Also every other aspect of football gets criticised after the event. Managers and the players are fair game for criticism post event. They tried to do their best for the club but if they make a mistake fans will be critical of them. We’re not allowed to do that with the owner though because he’s a fan? If he owns the club it’s his job to run it in a sustainable way and it appears he hasn’t done that and we’re in trouble. I’m not sure why fans can’t be critical of the mess he’s made when it’s now come to light. Were we critical of the money spent on signings at the time? No, but we aren’t privy to the details of it or our financial situation.  none of us could have said “you’re spending £Xm on player Y? Well if you look at our net income and our current expenditure, taking into account his wages over his contract as well, that puts us in a tricky financial position. I don’t think we should sign him” - because we don’t have that info. 
 
Mel may we’ll have had the best intentions and if we’d got promoted nobody would have criticised but it appears to have been a gamble that didn’t pay off. Imagine I went to the casino with all my families savings with the intention of winning more and setting us up for life. If I come back quids in then happy days but if I lose it all I doubt my family would go “well your heart was in the right place” they’d rightly say “you did what? So we now risk losing our house etc and we’re in a worse financial position? What have you done?” - there’s a responsibility with the owners to ensure there’s still a club and not just blow on the dice, give them a roll and hope for the best.

It's not the sort of thing fans should know, tbf. 
It was easier when we just turned up and watched, and trusted those in charge would be good uns.

Puzzled at why people can't enjoy the moment

The first 3 mins is about the match, the rest is about the future.
TBH I'd be happy for him to have a proper go at the job - get the take over done and some players in that he can call his own, then judge him.
Unless something unforseen happens though it does look like he'll be with us next season, here's hoping he wins a few of the fans over.
 

You may have chosen the wrong evening to log on!

Don’t want to lose him, because a decent manager should be able to get a lot out him.
However after the youngster he’s about the only one with much value

?
One of the few experienced players consistently putting in effort and quality. Fortunately for you I imagine we can't afford him.

I know it’s hindsight but I’m now wishing we kept Cocu, yes we were bottom and frustrating to watch at times but at least he had a plan and Cocu was probably a striker (Dursun) away from implementing that plan to better effect. 
This squad, especially minus Bielik, is mid-table at best. It’s in need of investment in terms of quality and depth but at the moment it just feels like we have no way of getting ourselves out of the rut, and what doesn’t help is we don’t have a philosophy to stick to and believe in. It reminds me of spells under Nigel Clough, where we went on runs of poor form with no idea of how to get out of them. If we stay up it will be due to a fluke last day result. 
 
Just to add I thought Rooney was the right appointment at the time, still don’t think it’s all down to him but some of his decisions have cost us recently, namely the “game by game” attitude until the summer. He seemed to have written off this season from the off, which probably hasn’t helped