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Norman

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Posts posted by Norman

  1. Just now, AndyinLiverpool said:

    It's not that. I just noticed that when some right-wing members were flailing around last weekend trying to justify the behaviour of the 'counter' to the anti-racist protests, the right's big hitters on this thread were completely absent.

    I'm not on the right. My political compass says I'm bang in the centre. 

    I've had to work nights since late March 7 on, 7 off, due to corona and more illnesses and self harm in prisons due to their lockdown. So extra, experienced staff were put on nights permanently to deal with it. 

    My posting history will show you it is massively patchy. I don't know who the other big hitters are?

  2. Just now, AndyinLiverpool said:

    Haha. Funny how you take time between night shifts to be 'social' when there's a point to score though.

    Think I only made a few posts in the last 2 weeks or so in this thread, haven't I? 

    And I only posted about the match yesterday evening? 

    Oh well. I will take the fact that you follow my posts so closely as a compliment.

  3. 16 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

    Tom Petty's estate issue Donald Trump with cease and desist notice over song

    Tom Petty's family says I Won't Back Down was written "for the common man" and they don't want it used for a "campaign of hate".

    It seems it's all on top for Donny but he needn't worry as ace, in-house US political correspondent @maxjam assures us it's still his to lose. Based on current approval ratings Donny appears to be trying to do just that though 😂

     

     

    Trump's Fucked.PNG

    SLeepy Joe.PNG

    @maxjam seems to back the right horse.

    You don't, and neither do the polls. I remember the good days when Labour queues were round the block and Corbyn was getting in. 

  4. 4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

    I felt nervous every time he had the ball at his feet, I thought Wisdom and Clarke both had really poor distribution.

    Wisdom gets a 4/10 from me. 

    Clarke a 6.

    Interesting that Rowett put a man on Sibley, which didn't work, and left Bird and Rooney free. 

    I mean, you can't really man mark us at the minute. You would need a man on Rooney to stop the distribution, a man on Sibley to stop the transition and you still leave Bird free. 

  5. 13 minutes ago, Highgate said:

    Why is that ironic?  The notion that some races are suitable for certain types of work involving physical activity (such as playing football) but not suitable for jobs relying on mental skills (such as coaching or management) has been the underpinning of the racist mindset for centuries now.  Where is the irony in what Sterling said?

    For ducks sake. 

    He used a figure quoting a massive over-representation to prove a point about under-representation.

    The amount of black players who have taken up coaching courses, failed to get a job etc would have been more helpful figures to quote. 

    I thought it was ironic. 

  6. 46 minutes ago, Needlesh said:

     

    I saw Raheem Sterling quoted as saying "The only disease right now is the racism that we are fighting". I wish this was true.

     

     

    He also quoted that 33 percent of players on the Premier league are black to back up his statistics that black people are underrepresented in coaching and management roles. 

    Which I thought was quite ironic. 

  7. 4 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

    Actually it's a 'great wall of text' that illustrates an anomaly for BAME folk dying while under physical restraint ie. the same way George Floyd died. It seems in your haste to rubbish the argument, the crux of it has gone right over your head. 

    As for progress, the highest death count in a decade was in 2017 so the major changes and awareness argument isn't really stacking up either.

    I've tried to present some data, you've countered with Twatter gags, more opinions dressed as facts and some blather about sickle cell, while ducking the only question actually put to you. As such, I'll politely recuse myself from our 'debate' now and bid you a pleasant evening 👍

     

     

    It's not blather. I'm advanced in restraint techniques. Sickle cell is at the top of importance for me as I don't work with women and don't have to worry about pregnancies. It's drilled into us.

    It shows an anomaly, yes. But further evidence from @maxjam shows a lot has to be taken into account.

    Just wondered if there was a good solid base to argue that our police use racist brutality when making arrests. It's a massive thing to accuse the police of. Was just making sure the facts were being presented right. 

    And the Twitter handle wasn't a joke. I'm actually interested to see your unfiltered opinions.

  8. 5 minutes ago, maxjam said:

    Where did you get those stats from?

    This BBC article suggests slightly different;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52890363

    Furthermore a good percentage of deaths following police contact are due to road accident or suicide or intoxication;

    https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/statistics/deaths_during_following_police_contact_201718.pdf#page=42

    https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/statistics/deaths_during_following_police_contact_201819.pdf#page=43

    Over the past two years there has been (the 2017-18 figures are here and 2018-19 is here).

    They show that of 39 custody-related deaths:

    17 involved the use of force by police officers

    11 of these deaths were of white people

    6 were of black people - nearly a third of the total

    The IOPC says, of custody-related deaths overall, it does not "necessarily mean that the use of force contributed to the death". It says mental health or drug and alcohol problems are factors. In 2018-19, almost two-thirds of the custody-related deaths were directly linked to intoxication.

    I'm being lazy here, but does it give a figure for unlawful deaths? 

  9. 3 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

    Racism hasn’t ‘got better’, it’s definition and how it manifests itself in society have changed.  

    Once again I pop into this thread and see those who like to have an opinion completely missing the point. Much like they can’t see past their own little tunnel vision argument. 

    It's a thread for opinions. A forum.

    Maybe write a post saying where they are missing the point. You might get past your own tunnel vision that way. 

  10. I mean a great wall of text, that says deaths in custody of BAME is in line with the population. 

    We have to use different restraint techniques on BAME. Sickle cell etc. So again, I'm not surprised figures dating from 1990 record higher for BAME under restraint. There have been major changes and awareness there. 

  11. 12 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

    There may be a a lesser case than could be argued is true of the US, but the States have hardly set an unattainable benchmark, have they?

    Stating there is 'no case to answer' is simply not true. The numbers may pale alongside US totals, but irrespective of that pointless and irrelevant comparison, there have still been over 160 BAME deaths in police custody since 1990 and for the families and friends of the victims, I would argue there is very much a case to answer.

    Some stats for you that might provide insight as to why folk are so angry:

    • The proportion of BAME deaths in custody where restraint is a feature is over two times greater than it is in other deaths in custody
       
    • The proportion of BAME deaths in custody where use of force is a feature is over two times greater than it is in other deaths in custody
       
    • The proportion of BAME deaths in custody where mental health-related issues are a feature is nearly two times greater than it is in other deaths in custody
       

    Total BAME deaths in police custody or otherwise following
    contact with the police, England & Wales 1990-date

    Type                            Metropolitan Police                  Other Forces                  Total

    Custody                                        84                                        79                            163

    Shooting                                      15                                          5                               20

    All custody & shooting deaths    99                                         84                             183

    While the overall death-count is broadly in line with the 2011 census - that is, BAME victims account for 14% of the total figure - it is the number of deaths where BAME victims have died while under restraint that is the most notable anomaly.

    Is it any wonder then, that the manner of George Floyd's killing has triggered fury among the family and friends of those who have died here in the UK under very similar circumstances?

    Furthermore, and setting aside any BLM considerations, over 1740 people have died in police custody or otherwise following contact with the police in England & Wales since 1990. Perhaps those numbers beg no questions for you, but don't assume that everyone else feels the same way as they clearly do not.

    Given these statistics and again, setting aside any racial context, can you explain how it is you can state as you have that, 'there is no case to answer for police brutality in this country'?

    And notwithstanding the dangers presented by mass-gatherings at this time, is the real question not , why are black folk protesting, but rather, why isn't everyone? 

    What's your Twitter handle? 

    160 deaths in 30 years. How many ruled unlawful?

    Because, from my own experience, the rest of the stats seem to be what I would expect. 

  12. 29 minutes ago, Eddie said:

    We are to be congratulated for not wanting to own slaves? Is that really the sum total of your argument?

    Think you might have your sums wrong, Eddie. 

    I'm amazed I'm not on your ignore list, though. 

  13. 13 minutes ago, maxjam said:

    Maybe a large part of the black community feeling as though its still 1965 is largely down to the left and leftist media's hateful obsession with identity politics.

    There seems to be so much racism around these days that there is huge focus on micro aggressions, unconscious bias and statues of people that lived 200-300yrs ago.

    Nobody ever credits how far we've come or really talks about what steps we can still take, only how modern Whitey can pay for the sins of his ancestors that more than likely didn't even have active involvement in the slave trade either.

    My family roots come from Norway, then Ireland. 

    I have a lot to be sinful for. 

    Rape, pillage, brutality and Mrs Brown's Boys. 

  14. Just now, SchtivePesley said:

    No - I'm not, and that's what frustrates and puzzles me. We (as white blokes) would agree that it's nowhere near as bad as it was in the 70s

    See my post the other day about my black teacher in the 80s and the whole class doing monkey noises whenever he turned around. Wouldn't happen now without kids getting expelled

    But I guess you don't have to zoom out very far for the scale of change to disappear

    Fundamentally we can't have changed too much if the black community are still having to riot in order to have racist police brutality addressed - like they were doing in 1965

    This country has changed. There is no case to answer for police brutality in this country. 

    You can't keep lumping us in with other countries. 

  15. Just now, SchtivePesley said:

    I think we'd all like to think that way, but how long do you wait before you expect to see things change?

    It feels like this particular issue has been going on for my whole life and hasn't really changed

    I remember being moved by the Frank Zappa line in Trouble Every Day about the Watts Riots in 1965

    "I'm not black but there's a whole lot of times I wish I could say I'm not white"

    Then the Rodney King riots in 1992

    Now George Floyd in 2020

    Feels like every 30 years or so the anger boils over, but nothing changes

    Ah come on. Are you saying it isn't better to be black now than in the 70's? 

    poo takes time. The only real alternative is to start going down family trees and redistributing the wealth. 

  16. 11 minutes ago, TramRam said:

    Knock knock knock.

    Who is it?

    It's the Police.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52964839

     

    Yeah, duck the cops. 

    Oh wait. They are arresting me for a crime, where I will be fairly treated upon arrest, given a fair trial, a chance to be defended by taxpayers and have the right to be innocent until found guilty. My identity might be hidden for my own sake.... Because, guess what. 

    This isn't ducking Murica. 

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