jono

Whatever .. but he’s had a lot lot more than 10 minutes here and there

Roy, you know a lot about the game, you’ve watched a lifetime of football, I know from our PM’s that you are a sound, well read intelligent and thoughtful man, but honestly with the anti Warne thing and the Sibley my love child stance you are being a bit of an obsessional scratched record and seriously one dimensional. Come on, regardless of position or a run of starts and whatever caveats are chucked in, has Sibs really got even close to his early promise or his occasional purple patches. ? I am sure you’d lambast the likes of Lawrence or Ince for the level of performance we’ve seen from him, but somehow Sibs gets a free pass time and again. I Just don’t get it ? he’s a good lad with some ability, that from time to time shows up. That said he isn’t a Will Hughes or anything even close. You wouldn’t build a team round him, you wouldn’t chose him as a dead cert on a 1 V 1, you wouldn’t say he’s Mr 100% graft and passion. You wouldn’t say he was team spirit personified or possessed of vision and a football brain. He’s a Ram and I’ll back him all the way when he’s playing but seeing him as a wronged and misused super star in the making is bonkers. .. And that is how you come across. Hey, each to his own, it is just opinions but there does come a point when hard evidence negates even the most sincere feelings and instincts.

I am opposed to changing our manager now, I just think it’s fundamentally wrong for so many reasons but yours is the best counter argument I have seen. He missed an opportunity in bigger picture terms. My guess this time round is he thought a group buoyed by Saturdays win would cruise through this game with confidence and vigour which is a rational assumption I don’t think he got any tactics wrong but his players didn’t meet his expectations when younger hungrier lads might have done. No guarantee of course, it was a reasonable decision but it didn’t work. I am still ok with Warne, I still want him given time (This full season ) but too many more choices that don’t bear fruit will make me question

Oooops 🤣🤣🤣

So, you don’t think they needed to run more and make fewer individual mistakes ? Change the manager again ? It’s not the players having a bad day ? It’s all down to bad coaching ? It has nothing to do with an opponent who made fewer mistakes, were more hungry for the ball and worked their bollox off ? Let’s take Cashin - probably tops of our lot for desire and effort but they worked him over, pure and simple. No coaching, “dimensions” or tactics are going to change that. We didn’t exhibit enough team play or effort and we misplaced too many passes. We got beaten by a side that were better than us on the night. Virtually the same team that bossed Barnsley and came out on top. … I’d be asking the players to question themselves rather than reverting to a sack the boss knee jerk reaction.

Yes, but whoever was on the pitch they did need to “run more” which was what I think you challenged ? . I think you want to imply that Warne is simplistic or even crude ? Well that’s the message I got from your original post. Sorry Roy, perhaps I am mistaken ? but I certainly felt the sneer and dismissiveness in your tone ? Is that what you were suggesting or is it something else ? From my point of view, having been at that match, it WAS very simple .. There wasn’t much between the sides in skill deployed. We didn’t hoof it or play “bad” football. (You might argue that played football badly though. ) Very simply, Crewe were as good as we were individually but worked harder. They deserved their win simply because of that. This loss wasn’t about style of play or tactics .. this was about effort and errors .. Collectively there was not enough of one and too many of the other.

We can talk about tactical shortcomings or managerial failings all day long but the bottom line tonight is that we made too many individual errors and failings in bad passes, poor crosses and pedestrian movement of the ball, which coincided with an opponent who had 11 players who worked very hard whilst displaying some good skills, quick thinking and a winning attitude. Very disappointed, lacklustre everywhere. Sibs is a good lad for sure, but he isn’t going to attract higher league attention whatever position he plays in.

Yes Roy. They do. We were beaten by an athletic team with little difference in skill level but they worked harder for longer than we did. Throw whatever you want at the management but for me we were hopelessly casual all evening bar the first 5 minutes of each half. A big chunk of that is down to players and leadership on the pitch.

Well I am going with visiting nephew, half fan who really supports Luton and is slumming it after going to Old Trafford where the away support sang we’ll follow you back to London 🤣 Anyway, wet Tuesday replay against unfashionable opponents, times are tough so anything over 5k isn’t the end of the world. Looking forward to seeing some of the young guns

I think perhaps this is also a test for Warne himself. Is he a solid league 1 manager or can he create a competitive team a level higher ? I don’t think there is much difference between mid level L1 and Championship .. just fewer individual errors and, on average, a better first touch. You’re right though on the Rotherham comparison. If we go up and don’t compete then it isn’t good enough, he’d have to go, but for me he has time at least for this season. If we don’t go up and next season doesn’t start with us in the top two or 3 after say 5/10 games then my patience would wear thin. I just don’t want us unnecessarily pulling the trigger on yet another manager.

I really do get that but just maybe amidst our dreams of greater things, perhaps we shouldn’t be thinking of Warne as a Clough or even a Smith. Just a manager who will do a job and set us on the first lap or two of a relay and then pass the baton to another, for the next leg. ? Maybe Warne isn’t the long term manager but as the short/medium term he needs our support ? Before we get a Ferrari perhaps we need to get comfortable with our modeo andget to a destination where we might get the keys to something better.

Happy days. Real fighters performance. Some good football thrown in too. Think Cash ran Collins close for MOTM and thought Smith did some excellent ratting. Barks blew hot and cold, how did he miss that having done the hard bit so well ? Not much in it first half but the goal early in the second was a kick in the round objects that they couldn’t recover from. After that we ran it. We all know Collo’s weaknesses but he played damned well today and roughed up anyone who came near him. In a word Gutsy. There was a similar and welcome attitude in all our team today. No one was going to be intimidated and it showed.

Oh that is so sad Angie x. We all had a friendly giggle with B4. He always took even the worst and put a positive outlook on it. He’d have been delighted that Collions scored a brace today. His match report would have given us a lift as always A proper Ram. You’ll be chatting with Cloughie now “young man” . Much sympathy to his friends an family.

Which reminds me of a joke I heard in my youth Whats the difference between Ansels Bitter and making love in a rowing boat. ? They’re both ducking close to water

I normally have strong opinions and favourite players but it’s tricky to chose at the moment. The only thing I want and that consistently works is 4 at the back. These players have all had good days this season in one game or another, but I wish to heck they’d all decide to have a good day at the same time. Collins needs the ball in the box but if that isn’t going to happen then Washington is more versatile. Bradley has his issues but at least plays the ball out to midfield on the floor. Dunno .. hope they give us room to play. We need this to stop the one step forward one back rut we keep slipping in to.

Have to disagree. There have been a few dour games with players “off it” but I’ve also seen some good football and at times a team playing as a unit. It’s considerably better on the pitch than under Pearson and despite Cocu’s grand plan and intelligence it wasn’t very exciting at all. Heart in mouth as we fussed around on the edge of our own box waiting for inevitable mistakes and at the other end just not scoring goals. .. naaa I still like watching us and I see goals going in. We aren’t Barcabut I know these boys will be thereabouts a seasons end

And that’s the thing the anti PW brigade conveniently miss. If we steer clear of injuries I get the feeling that a developing Wilson and a fit Ward might just see us being a lot more effective in front of goal when Warne ball might suddenly become a lot more attractive.

As far as I’m concerned all news media fell apart once Redhead and Timpson retired. Downhill since then. Editorial “messages” from all sides, instead of information asking you to draw a conclusion of your own. BBC world service still has some vestiges of information giving but that’s about it.

I think you underestimate the level of intelligence possessed by Everyman. Of course there are those with a jingoistic/ nationalist view of these things, and we would both agree they are a “type” that hasn’t joined the dots or have an innate bigotry. (As there are those with an opposing axe to grind) The reality, from my perspective, is that most of us know perfectly well that the empire had its dark side and readily accept it wasn’t all beneficence and roses. The compromises made to achieve abolition were systemic and in the light of the times, the right thing to do in order to achieve the objective. It happens now, sops in order to bring the baby home without derailing the engine. The thing is we HAVE learned from our history. I would argue that Africa and India are both now struggling as to how they deal with Chinese influence because you can see in stark relief that there is a repeating theme post empire, and that is before we even get to endemic corruption. You and I are not on the same plane of the political spectrum, and whilst we are bound to disagree with each other in some areas, I know that I was educated to question, examine and draw my own conclusions far beyond nationalistic propaganda. The “anti imperialists” make many valid points but in my opinion many of those suppositions are part of a larger political end game, rather than just reflecting on history and the lessons it can teach.

Indeed, and I don’t disagree at all, but the level of scrutiny in some circles over the British Empire is extreme and never given the perspective that there have been empires throughout history, and in all corners of the world who have been just as brutal and just as pillaging. Further, that the British Empire did at least attempt a rule of law and built things for the general good be it a railway, a sewage system or schools. It also lead the world in abolition and outlawing brutal local religious practices.

How much Silver is there in Denmark, stolen from Geordie Churches eh ? And yes the Romans .. they built roads and beauty spas but slaughtered all those druids while they were at it. it’s also about time Nottingham apologised to Derby and gave up those European cups.

Exactly ! Which is why I rail against this revisionist history business when we are asked to apologise for the empire. Yes terrible things happened, it needs to be acknowledged, and yes we need to learn, do better on our watch, but take the hindsight critical eye always from it. It is history. No one alive today is to “blame” .. Consider Zimbabwe post empire, consider what African nations under their own recognisance are doing with China ? Consider India has a semblance of democracy because foundations were laid by the empire .. oh yes I won’t deny the advantageous terms the empire drew for itself, but lambasting it in the light of the times, past and present is fundamentally wrong. We just have to learn from it and do better. That is the obligation, not ritual humility of a nation whose current peoples took no part in it and gained no benefit from it.

I don’t agree with everything you say but you make good points. Also, to give you a salute you say “that is my belief” so very much better than saying “I am right” I have huge sympathy for the Palestinians especially when Netinyahoo (spelling 🤪) is so bellicose and to me at least, not very likeable or statesmanlike. Yet on the other hand if you lived in a country surrounded by every neighbour who really would rather you didn’t exist it does provide some background to what makes Israel so fixed in maintaining or even expanding their position. And, like it or not, with or without American help, Isreal has built a functioning prosperous nation that pays more than lip service to democracy. They are a big animal permanently backed in to a corner. Hamas has no interest in coaxing them out it would rather poke them with a sharp stick at the expense of the Palestinian people.

But it is a bit like democracy isn’t it ! Flawed .. but nothing better has come along. I think we are going to disagree on this one. India, Africa and so many others have had a very long time to sort out the “mess” but are repeating the mistakes of the empire under their own steam and doing a fine job with a different canvas.

And yet Saudi Arabia exists and can pursue its particular form of governance and control over oil supply ? One that most certainly doesn’t follow western norms and has successfully pulled the wests strings for 70 odd years ? But yes it is about basic resources which is why I mentioned space, water fertile land and a port. The west has always been prepared to pay but want the deal to favour then. The religionists are the same but more complex. Like Trump or other populists they harness the mob for their ends using divine right in place of base motives. The end result being the same, and a lot harder to shift or negotiate with.