Big Overhaul - New Squad - Who?

[Rampant]

Wrestling? Seriously? 

[Inglorius]

1 hour ago, Papahet said:

The theory of us having the third best defence in the league is pretty naff no offence.

It's like me saying Blackburn have a equal amount of attacking quality due to us both being on 36 goals. Or like saying Forest have better attacking options having scored 10 more than we currently have. We all know that's not true.

Or is it? I am afraid to know the answer 

Taking aside the merits/demerits of your argument around Keogh for a moment the theory around us having the 3rd best defence in the league isn't a theory it's a factual event - only 2 teams have conceded more goals than us in the Championship. Likewise Blackburn do have the same attacking potency as us given that they have scored the same amount of goals this season, the sampling period of over half a season is a fair measuring interval. Ergo their attacking threat or quality or whatever you want to call it is equivalent to ours. 

[Tombo]

35 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said:

Derby players as wrestlers?

Thorne is Brock Lesnar - goes away for months on end, doing god knows what, comes back for a couple of matches/shows reminding everyone who's boss and then buggers off again.

Bent is Randy Orton - always pops up outta nowhere to score.

Butterfield is The Undertaker - never smiles and fan opinion is beginning to turn against him.

Johnson is Matt Hardy - resembes him physically, done his best work playing an unconventional role and a little on the large side.

Russell is Dean Ambrose - never the main event, but fans (apart from a notable few) love him all the same. Always willing to put his body on the line for the spectacle.

Mel Morris is Vince McMahon - excentric millionaire who owns the company and will do damn well what he pleases with it as it's his cash. Fan opinion on him changes depending on how well the product is doing.

Bucko is CM Punk - a leader of men, who is now gone, but fans still yearn for his return. Good talker.

Hughes is AJ Styles - great at what he does, makes it look easy and makes everyone else look better just by being with him.

Martin is Steve Austin - Derby will creep into the play-offs, squeeze through to the final. 1-0 down to Leeds who are inexplicably managed by Nigel Pearson in the last five minutes. The glass shatters. "Bah Gawd, it's Chris Martin". Scores two goals and stunners Pearson after the final whistle giving him the middle fingers.

Any other ideas?

 

Keogh as John Cena, longstanding dressing room leader, the guy we've decided to back as much as possible, some argue does more bad than good but at the end of the day has taken us to a different level. 

Craig Forsyth as Seth Rollins because something something recurring knee injury.

Jacob Butterfield is more like Roman Reigns. Continually given chances even though he's clearly not up to it.

[Animal is a Ram]

48 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said:

Martin is Steve Austin - Derby will creep into the play-offs, squeeze through to the final. 1-0 down to Leeds who are inexplicably managed by Nigel Pearson in the last five minutes. The glass shatters. "Bah Gawd, it's Chris Martin". Scores two goals and stunners Pearson after the final whistle giving him the middle fingers.

This deserves all the likes in the world

[TheDeadlySaul]

2 hours ago, Papahet said:

The theory of us having the third best defence in the league is pretty naff no offence.

It's like me saying Blackburn have a equal amount of attacking quality due to us both being on 36 goals. Or like saying Forest have better attacking options having scored 10 more than we currently have. We all know that's not true.

Or is it? I am afraid to know the answer 

Stupid comments like this is why I've been avoiding this forum recently. 

[Papahet]

20 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

Stupid comments like this is why I've been avoiding this forum recently. 

So because our goals against is lower than most sides in the divison, it must mean we have the 3rd best defence? Does it really work like that, is it really that straightforward? 

Barca have conceded more than Villarreal this season, does this mean they have the better quality defence then?

The only two things i'd go off are the games won and the points gained, there's your quality.

 

 

[mrdave85]

10 minutes ago, Papahet said:

So because our goals against is lower than most sides in the divison, it must mean we have the 3rd best defence? Does it really work like that, is it really that straightforward? 

Barca have conceded more than Villarreal this season, does this mean they have the better quality defence then?

The only two things i'd go off are the games won and the points gained, there's your quality.

 

 

No, but it's a place to start.

Winning games is done by out scoring the opposition, conceding fewer goals gives you a greater opportunity to do that. 

Barca have one of the most formidable front 3 in world football, they don't have much issue scoring goals, which is how you win matches. Yet conceding so many means they have to rely on that front 3 getting the job done.

If their defence is so full of quality how come they've conceded more than Villarreal? 

 

[rammieib]

3 hours ago, Papahet said:

Whats a howler anyway? Thought it was another fancy word for a ; mistake, fault, blunder...no?

OK, a ERROR, is that a better word for me to use? Keogh made several errors leading up to a goal, whether that be give the ball away needlessly, failing to mark a man at a set piece or continually backing off on a player.

So he could do no more with the long ball by Lee Camp other than head in straight back to them? Danny Ward wasn't even attempting to head the ball, he was trying to go round the back of Keogh. Look how easy Ward takes Christie and Keogh out with the chested pass- flick, cross too easy

What are you genuinely looking for then that's realistic at Derby?

Keogh does make errors, they all do, but rarely he makes howlers.

Just feel like you're looking for perfection. We are a Championship team struggling for the play offs.

Majority on here genuinely believe Keogh to be a top player, passionate, attempts to take the ball out of defence and plays with his heart on his sleeve. We could do with more like him.

[EnigmaRam]

Why is everyone trying to change papahets mind? It's clearly made up right or wrong and nothing you say, no matter how much evidence you provide to back yourself he ain't listening.

it reminds me of my father in law. He loves cheese bread and tomato.but won't touch a pizza because its foreign!! No argument will change his mind of the contents that make a pizza. 

[Papahet]

1 hour ago, mrdave85 said:

No, but it's a place to start.

Winning games is done by out scoring the opposition, conceding fewer goals gives you a greater opportunity to do that. 

Barca have one of the most formidable front 3 in world football, they don't have much issue scoring goals, which is how you win matches. Yet conceding so many means they have to rely on that front 3 getting the job done.

If their defence is so full of quality how come they've conceded more than Villarreal? 

 

I could argue the lack of goals conceded, added with the lack of goals scored is the showings of a side not wanting to attack.

Whereas when a side has the bottle to attack us, guess what? We struggle to cope. Leeds was the first warning. How many have we conceded since that game inc the cup? Got to be close to 20 surely.

I'll tell you something else which needs majorly addressing; Why for the past three seasons has this squad crumbled when going into a new year? It happened with Mcclaren in his previous spell, it happened with Clement last year and it's happened again this. Get the results up and see for yourselves. 

That's preciously why I want change at the club. Good players, sure. Not good enough mentally.

[ramit]

Keogh plays every game, i mean every game, it's phenomenal, the man is unstoppable, he works hard and gets involved with play, he could probably do two games one after the other, he's a fitness god or something.  i'm crazy about the guy, i think he's marvelous, i think he's the best thing since sliced mustard, he's the captain the one who drives the lads forward, my hero, does cute interviews too and you gotta admit this fellow is amazing, his big bulging eyes staring fanatically at the screen, i get all worked up.  Am just overjoyed to have lived to follow his entire Derby carrier up until now but i tell you, i don't criticize my fellow Rams much so this doesn't come easy for me and i ask you to bare with me while i attempt to correctly encapsulate the meaning in a comprehensive manner fitting the occasion.

You Keogh critics suck, bunch of  plastic quarter fans

[Ambitious]

It's time for the men in the background to start earning their coin.

We don't need a complete overhaul, nor do we need to throw away the principles that have, for the most part, brought us football that we have enjoyed watching. The issue is, and many people have picked up on this, that this is a mixed bag of players that have come in for various different reasons - many of which don't apply to the way we play anymore. I'm not saying let's give up on the players that have been bought in by Clement and Pearson, but we have to be pragmatic in the way we go about things from this point onwards. I believe we have the individuals for promotion in our squad, many of them have proven it, but collectively as a team we simply don't. 

Players Departing: I don't deny that there is a lot of players that don't fit and need to be moved on. Matej Vydra being the main suspect as he doesn't have a future here under Steve McClaren. He has spent his whole career going through spouts of form, where he can't stop scoring, and dry spells that can last months at a time. The problem with him, in my opinion, is that he isn't a very good footballer. He's okay, but in comparison to the likes of Martin, he's miles behind in terms of touch, control and keeping possession. Blackman, Camara, Shackell & Butterfield all struggle to fit and I can see them all going. Bradley Johnson to a point, also. I think that's the best part of £20m, plus god knows what in wages, for what will look to be a fire sale. The future's of the players out of contract also remain up for the debate - Bent & Baird(?). 

Players Coming In: Now, this is where I mean the men in the background have to start earning their coin. It's shown that we can't just rely on buying proven individuals as they are used to playing to a different type of football than we are used to. We need to meticulously plan on those individuals coming in, because in the past two seasons, we've seen one in about 4-5 signings actually show their value. I don't believe there is a position, aside from left back & goalkeeper, that we don't need to strengthen in the summer. It's a lot of bodies coming in. If I was Mel, I'd also look at the long-term aspects of signings, we've consistently made signings in peak years, which ultimately means that even if they're successful they will probably leave for a loss. I'm not saying let's buy a load of kids, but again, it needs thought going into it. For me, Derby County are a big enough club with a big enough infrastructure that we should have someone watching every single game in the football league, plus perhaps conference, in full, every week. Not to mention, perhaps 15-20 people constantly watching games abroad. It's then players are highlighted as being good and then you can start the background research, such as what they're like off the field. I don't believe this is a big ask at all, especially when you consider what is at stake and what the end rewards are. 

Ultimately, for me, the planning needs to be a lot better than what it has been. We don't seem to be investing the time or resource to properly vet a player, despite not thinking twice about spending huge money on getting them here. I think both Mel and McClaren need more help from those with names we probably don't hear, but have a huge part to play if we are to be successful. 

[Sparkle]

15 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

It's time for the men in the background to start earning their coin.

We don't need a complete overhaul, nor do we need to throw away the principles that have, for the most part, brought us football that we have enjoyed watching. The issue is, and many people have picked up on this, that this is a mixed bag of players that have come in for various different reasons - many of which don't apply to the way we play anymore. I'm not saying let's give up on the players that have been bought in by Clement and Pearson, but we have to be pragmatic in the way we go about things from this point onwards. I believe we have the individuals for promotion in our squad, many of them have proven it, but collectively as a team we simply don't. 

Players Departing: I don't deny that there is a lot of players that don't fit and need to be moved on. Matej Vydra being the main suspect as he doesn't have a future here under Steve McClaren. He has spent his whole career going through spouts of form, where he can't stop scoring, and dry spells that can last months at a time. The problem with him, in my opinion, is that he isn't a very good footballer. He's okay, but in comparison to the likes of Martin, he's miles behind in terms of touch, control and keeping possession. Blackman, Camara, Shackell & Butterfield all struggle to fit and I can see them all going. Bradley Johnson to a point, also. I think that's the best part of £20m, plus god knows what in wages, for what will look to be a fire sale. The future's of the players out of contract also remain up for the debate - Bent & Baird(?). 

Players Coming In: Now, this is where I mean the men in the background have to start earning their coin. It's shown that we can't just rely on buying proven individuals as they are used to playing to a different type of football than we are used to. We need to meticulously plan on those individuals coming in, because in the past two seasons, we've seen one in about 4-5 signings actually show their value. I don't believe there is a position, aside from left back & goalkeeper, that we don't need to strengthen in the summer. It's a lot of bodies coming in. If I was Mel, I'd also look at the long-term aspects of signings, we've consistently made signings in peak years, which ultimately means that even if they're successful they will probably leave for a loss. I'm not saying let's buy a load of kids, but again, it needs thought going into it. For me, Derby County are a big enough club with a big enough infrastructure that we should have someone watching every single game in the football league, plus perhaps conference, in full, every week. Not to mention, perhaps 15-20 people constantly watching games abroad. It's then players are highlighted as being good and then you can start the background research, such as what they're like off the field. I don't believe this is a big ask at all, especially when you consider what is at stake and what the end rewards are. 

Ultimately, for me, the planning needs to be a lot better than what it has been. We don't seem to be investing the time or resource to properly vet a player, despite not thinking twice about spending huge money on getting them here. I think both Mel and McClaren need more help from those with names we probably don't hear, but have a huge part to play if we are to be successful. 

 

I agree with most of that ( I think shackell hasn't done anything wrong and is out of the team due to a decent partnership at CB) 

when you look at the last day of the summer transfer window Pearson sold Hendrick a tall strong young international midfielder but replaced him with no one! And the Martin fiasco sent away on loan and nearly sold to be replaced by heavily expensive Vydra and Anya who haven't exactly produced anything memorable have they?

[maydrakin]

I'd be quite happy to entertain other opportunities for any of the following:

Shackell (distribution)

Ince (will bring in cash - feels like he has to be carried sometimes)

Bent (out of contract)

Baird (out of contract)

Butterfield (slows the game and passes backwards too much - like watching Ray Wilkins play)

Camara (does not have a footballing brain)

Blackman (doesn't fit our formation - not good enough)

Vydra (doesn't fit our formation)

Olsson (third choice left back)

Weimann (doesn't fit our formation)

Mainly because I don't see them quite fitting into the style we require.

I'd like to generally see quick neat interchanges and movement off the ball.

We appear to have become too static.

GK - Carson, Mitchell, Roos

RB - Christie + 1

LB - Forsyth, Lowe

CB - Keogh, Pearce, + 1, Rawson

CDM - Thorne + 1

CM - Hughes, Bryson, Johnson

Wingers - Anya, Russell, + 2

CF - Martin, Nugent

I'd like to see a recruitment policy that took a few chances on well thought of younger hungry players with points to prove, rather than the recent Prem cast offs and players who are at the height of their curve.

I enjoyed us when we had two wingers and swapped both on 60 odd minutes, meaning we could play with a high tempo...

[DerpyDane]

We are clearly lacking a left winger so I really hope we go for Viktor Fischer from Middlesbrough on a loan this summer. Lad has loads of potential but has been hampered by injuries and isn't really getting regular game time at Boro. A loan spell in the championship could light up his career again and I could see him being a real threat for us with his pace and skillset. In general I think we should go back to bringing in players from the premier league on loan. Worked well for McClaren last time out and it would save us money instead of splashing cash on players that doesnt fit in.

[Grantona]

 Burnley will sell Michael Keane to Chelsea/Everton for an absolute fortune this summer, so it would not surprise me in the least to see Dyche try to sign Keogh - linking him up with Republic of Ireland team-mates Stephen Ward, Jeff Hendrick and Robbie Brady.