Highgate Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, eddie said: Electrolysis. Ok, let me rephrase, how do you produce enough hydrogen to supply an entire transport sector, without using massive amounts of energy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 15 minutes ago, Highgate said: Ok, let me rephrase, how do you produce enough hydrogen to supply an entire transport sector, without using massive amounts of energy? Not my problem http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060009250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Paul71 said: I dont know how much truth there is in it, but I always recall stories when i was growing up that when someone invented a usable electric engine, or alternative cleaner, cheaper ways of powering cars etc that the big fuel companies bought the rights to the inventions and buried them. Could be an old wives tale, but it wouldnt be a stretch to think those stories are true. I would tend to think if that was true then the Chinese would have found it and copied it by now, cornering the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, Wolfie said: I would tend to think if that was true then the Chinese would have found it and copied it by now, cornering the market. It does seem strange that we had electric milk vans in what the 60's? and it took us 50 years or whatever to advance much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 hour ago, StivePesley said: The same story is also common about the everlasting lightbulb. No idea how much truth there is in either claim, but yeah...wouldn't surprise you would it? yeah didn't that wonka guy promise an everlasting gobstopper, all a load of ole tosh if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 38 minutes ago, Highgate said: I don't know if the effect on the economy would be as bad as you say, seems to me that a shift in technologies might just alter the economy rather than damage it. However, if even it is the case I think its time for governments to get together and start prioritising our environment in the long-term rather than just thinking about our collective economies in the short-term. Also we need electric cars with better batteries to give them a larger range...making them more attractive to customers. I'm currently working on a prototype of a car where the korean battery supplier has been challenged to supply a battery with a 450mile range. This battery alone costs $80k! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 28 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: I'm currently working on a prototype of a car where the korean battery supplier has been challenged to supply a battery with a 450mile range. This battery alone costs $80k! That's why more research needs to be done, to bring the price of the batteries down. Keep up the good work on the prototype car, we are all depending on you to save the planet for humanity. No pressure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 53 minutes ago, eddie said: Not my problem http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060009250 Not realistic at the moment it seems the thrust of that article, but maybe there is some hope for the future in that area too. My original question about where the hydrogen comes for hydrogen fuels cells from was merely meant to highlight the fact that it has to be produced from somewhere, and that production will require energy and produce greenhouse gases in it's own right. Therefore its not enough to merely talk about zero tail-pipe emissions. Nevertheless, thanks for spelling out one of the options available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 i know i wont be buying a diesel again,ill be looking at a hybrid or more likely a pure electric type. the draw of virtually free fuel,esp if i recharge at the free charge points at work together with free road tax and cheap maintenance makes them a lot more desirable nowadays and the range on them has increased to around 150 miles between charges too,so they have become genuinely useable for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 19 minutes ago, Highgate said: Not realistic at the moment it seems the thrust of that article, but maybe there is some hope for the future in that area too. My original question about where the hydrogen comes for hydrogen fuels cells from was merely meant to highlight the fact that it has to be produced from somewhere, and that production will require energy and produce greenhouse gases in it's own right. Therefore its not enough to merely talk about zero tail-pipe emissions. Nevertheless, thanks for spelling out one of the options available. Yep. Water seems to be the answer to many of our problems - but not in my lifetime. Produce hydrogen by electrolysis, use the hydrogen in a fusion reactor, hey presto, limitless free energy. Collect said energy in batteries/fuel cells to power electrical vehicles and so on. Personally I think that the idea of battery or fuel cell based self-contained personal electrical transportation will be a temporary solution - the ultimate transportation system will be a linear motor/induction method (think maglev but personalised). It's only been in development for 150 years (the pioneering work was carried out by Charles Wheatstone, no less) so another 350 years or so is a small time to wait. Oh, for a flux capacitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 London needs a kick up the arse.. Never mind the diesel omissions get the bloody traffic moving and reduce he journey time, then we won't be sitting in our cars with the engines running all the time.. Endless unused cycle routes, traffic lights that deliberately slow traffic movements.. Drives me mad.. That get a bus or a train now you need a mortgage.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Highgate said: I don't know if the effect on the economy would be as bad as you say, seems to me that a shift in technologies might just alter the economy rather than damage it. However, if even it is the case I think its time for governments to get together and start prioritising our environment in the long-term rather than just thinking about our collective economies in the short-term. Also we need electric cars with better batteries to give them a larger range...making them more attractive to customers. Regarding the economy I'm no expert so i can only comment on the information I've been told , I was on an IMI course regarding high voltage vehicles and regarding the better batteries Ford ( who I work for) are going to have an SUV and a family car that will have a 300 mile battery capacity with the ability to be able to fully charge within 6 minutes ( using a service station charger ) 20 minutes with a home charger , by 2021 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 56 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: London needs a kick up the arse.. Never mind the diesel omissions get the bloody traffic moving and reduce he journey time, then we won't be sitting in our cars with the engines running all the time.. Endless unused cycle routes, traffic lights that deliberately slow traffic movements.. Drives me mad.. That get a bus or a train now you need a mortgage.. Good point about the traffic lights, surely it can't be beyond the wit of man to design smart lights that maximise the flow of traffic. Every morning and night, I sit waiting at lights that intersect with a tramway, for the sake of a filter light that would let traffic flow without impeding the tram. It's almost as if it's done on purpose, to show motorists how much quicker the tram is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Hydrogen is the way forward. A hydrogen cell running a car runs at 50-60% of efficiency while a petrol is less than 20% diesel about 30%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Got a diesel. Hate them, always have, they smell disgusting. Improved a bit with particulate filters. Had to buy one because of how we tax things. lots of torque, low fuel consumption, poor throttle response. Efficient yes, but smelly and now it seems poisonous .. But if you sit behind an old one in a traffic queue then you knew that anyway. Electric cars offer the chance of having the pollution at the power station with more chance of controlling it. And fantastic performance. I reckon we are nearly there .. The new Jag Ipace is suggesting 250 miles range and a 2 hour charge time. Get that to 300 miles and 15 minutes and it's job done. 10/12 years for mass market affordable product is my bet While we wait, I wish I could afford to run something petrol and sexy, with 6 or more cylinders, a throttle response like a trigger and growl like engines ought to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 22 hours ago, RiddingsRam said: Regarding the economy I'm no expert so i can only comment on the information I've been told , I was on an IMI course regarding high voltage vehicles and regarding the better batteries Ford ( who I work for) are going to have an SUV and a family car that will have a 300 mile battery capacity with the ability to be able to fully charge within 6 minutes ( using a service station charger ) 20 minutes with a home charger , by 2021 . At that moment the internal combustion engine dies a death assuming replacement batteries are affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 We have enough known deposits of oil to last another century at least, we know how to refine it, and are getting better and better at designing engines and fuel management systems to burn it. Let's just go with that, until we get something better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 The only thing I hate about diesel is filling it up, how hard is it to design a pump that doesn't piss diesel everywhere and get it on my delicate hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Just now, LesterRam said: The only thing I hate about diesel is filling it up, how hard is it to design a pump that doesn't piss diesel everywhere and get it on my delicate hands. I once heard that every drop of fuel that lands on the floor when filling up equals a whole tankful burnt, emissions wise. Was Clarkson on top gear though, so may not be true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 14 minutes ago, reveldevil said: I once heard that every drop of fuel that lands on the floor when filling up equals a whole tankful burnt, emissions wise. Was Clarkson on top gear though, so may not be true It could be true. There is a huge market in vapour recovery. Storage tanks have to breath otherwise they would collapse as temperature changes but if you vent to atmosphere you lose your product if the substance is volatile. Have a look at the pipes near to tanks in filling stations. All sorts of techi stuff going on there tomprevent just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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