England Rugby 2017

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

As much as I enjoy free flowing attacking rugby there is something immensely satisfying playing a good team away in a hostile atmosphere and really digging out a nasty win. Love it.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Have to say that Eddie Jones has completely won me over.

When he was hired as "a winner " I wondered why that was given we'd beaten his side in their home world cup.

But his line about the Welsh " they're cunning,  they've got goats,  they've got daffodils,  they've got everything " was genius that beautifully underplayed his tactical nous and ruthlessness. 

[StockholmRam]

Eddie has made England very difficult to beat. At his disposal are really two International sides and barring one or two 100% starters ( Id say Farrell and Kruis if fit) there are players on the bench and in the squad pushing the starting XV to produce again and again... Its a very healthy situation and given at least 5-6 of those pushing have been called in due to injury to key personel Id say thats what has gotten us over the line in both 6 nations games. 

However, if I was anyone other than ABs I would be very fearful of a full English contingent at the ready for EJ to pick from. That starting XV and bench really would take some stopping.

Plus...Underhill and maybe Tuillangi waiting in the wings to be considered. 

 

 

[WhiteHorseRam]

11 minutes ago, StockholmRam said:

Eddie has made England very difficult to beat. At his disposal are really two International sides and barring one or two 100% starters ( Id say Farrell and Kruis if fit) there are players on the bench and in the squad pushing the starting XV to produce again and again... Its a very healthy situation and given at least 5-6 of those pushing have been called in due to injury to key personel Id say thats what has gotten us over the line in both 6 nations games. 

However, if I was anyone other than ABs I would be very fearful of a full English contingent at the ready for EJ to pick from. That starting XV and bench really would take some stopping.

Plus...Underhill and maybe Tuillangi waiting in the wings to be considered. 

 

 

It's the thing that makes me so depressed about the football team.

You can see the cricket and rugby Union teams are in a cycle, and I think the latter are on the cusp of really great things with EJ.

The football team just seem to be winding down, worse performances each tournement, even as the Prem and the EFL gets richer.

[Highgate]

4 hours ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

It's the thing that makes me so depressed about the football team.

You can see the cricket and rugby Union teams are in a cycle, and I think the latter are on the cusp of really great things with EJ.

The football team just seem to be winding down, worse performances each tournement, even as the Prem and the EFL gets richer.

It's harder with football though, you have to compete against far more countries. How many nations take rugby union and cricket seriously?  That's why it will always be harder for the football teams. 

[WhiteHorseRam]

12 hours ago, Highgate said:

It's harder with football though, you have to compete against far more countries. How many nations take rugby union and cricket seriously?  That's why it will always be harder for the football teams. 

All true, but we have 92 professional and semi-pro football clubs, the game in the UK is worth around 4-5 billion to the economy, much of the population is obsessed by it, oh and we invented it.

In the last tournament we got knocked out by Iceland. The appointment of Southgate, who seems to have got the job by default and because essentially he's a nice lad, sums it all up. Would we have him at PP?

Thank God for the rugby team who literally give us something to cheer about.

[Comrade 86]

I don't buy into the 'it's harder for football' argument. There may be 90+ countries playing the sport but how many have a realistic chance of winning a major tournament? And how do we rationalise defeats to the likes of Iceland at major tournaments. We're perennial underachievers and it's no coincidence that Southgate was at the England Rugby training camp recently.  

[Highgate]

3 hours ago, 86 points said:

I don't buy into the 'it's harder for football' argument. There may be 90+ countries playing the sport but how many have a realistic chance of winning a major tournament? And how do we rationalise defeats to the likes of Iceland at major tournaments. We're perennial underachievers and it's no coincidence that Southgate was at the England Rugby training camp recently.  

No doubt the England Rugby set up is looking at lot more professional than the England Football team, and the players seem a lot more committed.  However, it's hardly controversial to say that more serious competitors in a sport means a tougher competition. The only country in the world, bar some Pacific islands, where Rugby Union is unequivocally the national sport is New Zealand, hence their standing in the sport. Any country that takes it half seriously is in the top 10. Not wishing to be too self deprecating, but any sport where Ireland are currently ranked 3rd in the world is a sport where the standard of international competition is not that high. The same can't be said for football. This is not a criticism of the quality of the sport itself, just an admission that most of the world don't take it seriously, therefore it's easier for the ones that do to appear 'top-class'. 

No accounting for the Iceland defeat. England deservedly losing to a country with 0.5% of it's population was a huge embarrassment. But given the low scoring nature of the game, it's the sort of thing that happens in football from time to time. The Iceland players showed everyone in that tournament what 100% commitment looks like.

[Comrade 86]

34 minutes ago, Highgate said:

No doubt the England Rugby set up is looking at lot more professional than the England Football team, and the players seem a lot more committed.  However, it's hardly controversial to say that more serious competitors in a sport means a tougher competition. The only country in the world, bar some Pacific islands, where Rugby Union is unequivocally the national sport is New Zealand, hence their standing in the sport. Any country that takes it half seriously is in the top 10. Not wishing to be too self deprecating, but any sport where Ireland are currently ranked 3rd in the world is a sport where the standard of international competition is not that high. The same can't be said for football. This is not a criticism of the quality of the sport itself, just an admission that most of the world don't take it seriously, therefore it's easier for the ones that do to appear 'top-class'. 

No accounting for the Iceland defeat. England deservedly losing to a country with 0.5% of it's population was a huge embarrassment. But given the low scoring nature of the game, it's the sort of thing that happens in football from time to time. The Iceland players showed everyone in that tournament what 100% commitment looks like.

I'm sorry but the Iceland game was hardly an isolated incident. How did we fair against the mighty Slovenia and did we put the equally mighty Wales to the sword in no uncertain fashion, that same footballing powerhouse who made it to the semi-finals of the Euros? Are you then suggesting the England football team is worthy of note whilst the rugby team is not and if not, what exactly is your point?

For the record, Wales has only twice made it past the quarterfinals of the Rugby World Cup - might this suggest given their football team's achievements, that the RWC is a touch more competitive that you credit it to be? And are you are aware that the IRB world rankings list over 100 rugby playing nations?

For 50 years now English football has languished amongst the ranks of the also-rans so perhaps forgive their rugby equivalents their folly and allow them their to take pride in their team without pointless comparisons to other sports. 

As for your comments about Ireland, with both my grandpa's hailing from the Emerald Isle I can assure you that to a man, the Irish fans I've met would find your observation on the value of their team's achievements more than a tad condescending.

[Highgate]

Well @86 points, I'm not for a moment claiming that the England Rugby team's relative performance aren't better than the Engand Football Team. Nor am i saying that the football team's recent performances in international tournaments has been anything but sub-standard, and below what their fans should expect. All I'm saying is that given the levels of competition in the sports, you would expect the English Rugby team to be competing for and winning more international honours than the football team. I think that should speak for itself and I don't think too many people would dispute it.

As for Ireland, I think we are capable of being a tiny bit more realistic than you give us credit for. Of course our fans are delighted and proud when the team wins, especially in a sport where we compete as the whole island instead of our fractured parts, but I think most of us realize if this was a global sport, its highly unlikely that we would be ranked 3rd in the world.

[StockholmRam]

15 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Well @86 points, I'm not for a moment claiming that the England Rugby team's relative performance aren't better than the Engand Football Team. Nor am i saying that the football team's recent performances in international tournaments has been anything but sub-standard, and below what their fans should expect. All I'm saying is that given the levels of competition in the sports, you would expect the English Rugby team to be competing for and winning more international honours than the football team. I think that should speak for itself and I don't think too many people would dispute it.

As for Ireland, I think we are capable of being a tiny bit more realistic than you give us credit for. Of course our fans are delighted and proud when the team wins, especially in a sport where we compete as the whole island instead of our fractured parts, but I think most of us realize if this was a global sport, its highly unlikely that we would be ranked 3rd in the world.

Hmmm.... What to say here. I think you make a fair point but badly Highgate... theres over 100 countries play rugby so it is global. Countrys far larger in population than Ireland.... Argentina and Italy for example. Id say Ireland have done amazingly well to get to 3rd in world rankings....regardless of how poplular the sport is.

[Highgate]

9 minutes ago, StockholmRam said:

Hmmm.... What to say here. I think you make a fair point but badly Highgate... theres over 100 countries play rugby so it is global. Countrys far larger in population than Ireland.... Argentina and Italy for example. Id say Ireland have done amazingly well to get to 3rd in world rankings....regardless of how poplular the sport is.

Ah come on...seriously!  How many of those countries are professional outfits?  What do you think the status of Rugby Union is in most European countries...compared to football.  Why do you think the effective European Championship contains 6 teams only? Do you think Argentina and Italy take rugby as seriously as they do football? No, they don't it's a minority sport in both countries.

[Comrade 86]

Setting aside the whole football / rugby narrative, what do we make of the 28 man squad for the Italy game? The list is:

Forwards (16): Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Jamie George (Saracens), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

Backs (12): Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath), Jonathan Joseph (Bath), Jonny May (Gloucester), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Anthony Watson (Bath), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Aside from the matchday 23 that faced Wales, Charlie Ewels, Teimana Harrison, Mike Williams, Henry Slade and Anthony Watson have all been recalled.

I'm hoping Watson will start - EJ has mooted he'll definitely have a role - and I'd expect him to replace May with Nowell on the other wing. I wonder whether Te'o might get some proper game time too rather than the 'finisher' role he's played to date. JJ hasn't looked in peak form (who has to be fair?) thus far so perhaps EJ will a experiment a little with the line up?

As for Italy, hate to say it but they seem to have gone backwards. Even Parisse seems out of sorts. 

 

[Highgate]

20 minutes ago, 86 points said:

As for Italy, hate to say it but they seem to have gone backwards. Even Parisse seems out of sorts.

Yeah, i can only see a huge win for England on the cards. As you say even Parisse has been below his usual standard. Made some uncharacteristic errors against Ireland.

[WhiteHorseRam]

43 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Setting aside the whole football / rugby narrative, what do we make of the 28 man squad for the Italy game? The list is:

Forwards (16): Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Jamie George (Saracens), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

Backs (12): Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath), Jonathan Joseph (Bath), Jonny May (Gloucester), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Anthony Watson (Bath), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Aside from the matchday 23 that faced Wales, Charlie Ewels, Teimana Harrison, Mike Williams, Henry Slade and Anthony Watson have all been recalled.

I'm hoping Watson will start - EJ has mooted he'll definitely have a role - and I'd expect him to replace May with Nowell on the other wing. I wonder whether Te'o might get some proper game time too rather than the 'finisher' role he's played to date. JJ hasn't looked in peak form (who has to be fair?) thus far so perhaps EJ will a experiment a little with the line up?

As for Italy, hate to say it but they seem to have gone backwards. Even Parisse seems out of sorts. 

 

The great white steam roller cometh ....

[Comrade 86]

43 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Yeah, i can only see a huge win for England on the cards. As you say even Parisse has been below his usual standard. Made some uncharacteristic errors against Ireland.

 

20 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

The great white steam roller cometh ....

I'm keeping both feet firmly rooted. Every time I expect us to roll over the Italians it seems to end up being frustrating and a tad underwhelming so perhaps if I expect less I'll be happier with the outcome. They were utterly oeful in the second half against Wales, but their first half performance was actually pretty fair. Given the going over we got for long periods in our game against the Welsh, it looks even better now. Hopefully we see some flowing rugby, quick ball, a solid set piece and a little adventure from the backline.

[Comrade 86]

Quick update - 24 man squad as follows. As predicted, JJ left out suspect Te'o has displaced him in the starting line-up (temporarily maybe) and am hoping Henry Slade will be a little game time - he's an immense talent IMO. 

Mako is back after a decent return for Saracens at the weekend though I'd expect Marler to start with the (even) big(ger) lad coming on to wreak havoc in the last 20. Brother Billy was with the squad for a medical this week and is apparently making excellent progress in his return from a nasty knee injury which is also good to hear!

Forwards (13): Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints). James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

Backs (11): Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath), Jonny May (Gloucester), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Anthony Watson (Bath), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Other news includes Chelsea's Conte being the latest coach to visit the training camp to check what Eddie is putting in the lads' cuppas

[Comrade 86]

Mildly experimental look to the team. A chance to freshen up a few ahead of the Scotland and Ireland games and to try a midfield combo that's looked promising thus far. Nowell rested with May coming in and Haskell gets a start after strong showings off the bench. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39076481

[Comrade 86]

Wales' challenge going up in flames here. Shame! 

[CWC1983]

One game away from the triple crown.  Unfortunately it's at Twickenham where we haven't won since 83..... 

Wales should have put more points on us in the first half, but good defending and Rhys Webb committing a stupid free kick when Wales were almost away helped keep us on touch. They also had a chance for an easy 3 points when 6 points adrift that they turned down and went for the line out that turned into a shambles. 

2nd half was a great team performance and proves that we now have the skills and composure to take our chances when they come along. 

From a lions point of view, Gatland will be concerned that a lot of the Welsh players look out of form. I was impressed with Webb, Warburton, Williams, Alwyn Jones and Tiperic.

I can't see Biggar getting on the plane.

Stand off, Fly half, 2nd row and back row look really competitive and Gatland has some big decisions to make.