loweman2 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 48 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: 51 goals in 233 games, a goal every 4.5 games. Not bad for someone who plays a mixture of positions. Johnny Russell has 87 in 324, which is about a goal every 3.75 games. Many of which in Scotland. Chris Martin has 110 in 365, which is roughly a goal every 3.3 games. Darren Bent has 203 in 521, which is a goal every 2.5 games. Weimann has 31 in 176, which is a goal every 5.6 games. Vydra has 61 in 205, which is a goal every 3.4 games, similar to Martin. Ince had 60 in 213, which remarkably is very similar to Martin and Vydra, yet having rarely played up front. What we need to find is one of these lurking in the lower leagues again !! I would still rate him as the best striker I have seen playing for DCFC, 249 appearances and 106 goals a goal every 2.34 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: 51 goals in 233 games, a goal every 4.5 games. Not bad for someone who plays a mixture of positions. Johnny Russell has 87 in 324, which is about a goal every 3.75 games. Many of which in Scotland. Chris Martin has 110 in 365, which is roughly a goal every 3.3 games. Darren Bent has 203 in 521, which is a goal every 2.5 games. Weimann has 31 in 176, which is a goal every 5.6 games. Vydra has 61 in 205, which is a goal every 3.4 games, similar to Martin. Ince had 60 in 213, which remarkably is very similar to Martin and Vydra, yet having rarely played up front. It is just a pity he left his goal scoring boots at Reading.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 2 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: 'success' is subjective. I couldn't say definitively compared to McClaren, but not much in it. Not sure McClaren has money to waste, and relied on loans and freebies, aside of maybe Christie (for the first team), and I'd say Nigel equally so. The Clement side of it was very odd, and I think cost him his job more than the slump did. He wasted money in my opinion, assuming he sanctioned every purchase. I could name successes and failures, in my opinion for both Clough and McClaren, as a outright number, there would be more on Clough, but he had 5 years worth. I would suggest that more of those signings that fell between McClaren and Clement and in Clement's first two weeks were more attributable to McClaren than you suggest, Clement nodded them through. Obviously Clement is still the worst manger of the 3 in terms of recruitment. I would suggest that McClaren was better in terms of bringing loan players in but Clough had a better success rate in permanent signings espsecially when taking budgets into account. McClaren cocked up the post Wembley season on who he didn't sign so for me is in deficit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 25 minutes ago, sage said: I would suggest that more of those signings that fell between McClaren and Clement and in Clement's first two weeks were more attributable to McClaren than you suggest, Clement nodded them through. Obviously Clement is still the worst manger of the 3 in terms of recruitment. I would suggest that McClaren was better in terms of bringing loan players in but Clough had a better success rate in permanent signings espsecially when taking budgets into account. McClaren cocked up the post Wembley season on who he didn't sign so for me is in deficit. How many signings did he make in 5 years, and how many were successful? I think the ratio of success and failure would be higher than SM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: How many signings did he make in 5 years, and how many were successful? I think the ratio of success and failure would be higher than SM. How can both his success and failure ratio both be higher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Too much is Negative and very very boring. the rest is just boring :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Would love to add to this debate...... I'll bite my lip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 15 minutes ago, sage said: How can both his success and failure ratio both be higher? You know what I meant. I am very tired. I can't sleep at the moment. It's very stressful. I have changed pillows, tried sleeping with the TV on. Tried everything. Nothing seems to help. I don't know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 12 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: You know what I meant. I am very tired. I can't sleep at the moment. It's very stressful. I have changed pillows, tried sleeping with the TV on. Tried everything. Nothing seems to help. I don't know what to do. Go to the ipro to improve your sleeping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 15 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: You know what I meant. I am very tired. I can't sleep at the moment. It's very stressful. I have changed pillows, tried sleeping with the TV on. Tried everything. Nothing seems to help. I don't know what to do. Try and bottle of port and a collection of John Major speeches. You'll be nodding of before the cones hotline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 On 26 October 2016 at 09:37, Mostyn6 said: Just wondering if those posters that spent the second half of last season, where I don't think we dropped out of the top 6, whining and moaning and acting as if everything had gone horribly wrong, as if the club and team were in turmoil, now feel ashamed, or silly, or over-dramatic. I believe in karma, and self-fulfilling prophecies, and think our current predicament should be a lesson to those of you that didn't see and appreciate how good things actually were. It's a falsehood to say that we've had 3 years of failure, as really, we've had 3 seasons of being involved, yet now, we are way off the pace and this season is true failure (thus far). Let this be a lesson to ya. When things are good, enjoy it. I lost count of the amount of people describing performances and results last season as "the worst game I've ever seen". Absolute bullsausage. Now look at us. Great post I still see posts on the forum referring to the failure that Wassall was for us I must have very different expectations to a lot of others, he managed to guide into the playoffs when the season could have drifted into nothingness, it didn't pan out how we wanted but guess what folks..... That's football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 3 hours ago, sage said: I would suggest that more of those signings that fell between McClaren and Clement and in Clement's first two weeks were more attributable to McClaren than you suggest, Clement nodded them through. Obviously Clement is still the worst manger of the 3 in terms of recruitment. I would suggest that McClaren was better in terms of bringing loan players in but Clough had a better success rate in permanent signings espsecially when taking budgets into account. McClaren cocked up the post Wembley season on who he didn't sign so for me is in deficit. those initial signings under Clement, if attributable to McClaren, were clearly budget signings, made before Mel's deal was truly struck. I wouldn't say they were particularly worse than Clough's, just they were lesser than the level of new expectation. I could argue about Clough's permanents, but he did as much relying on Davies/Jewell signings than what McClaren relied/relies on Clough signings. McClaren wasn't here before the Wembley season?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 6 hours ago, loweman2 said: What we need to find is one of these lurking in the lower leagues again !! I would still rate him as the best striker I have seen playing for DCFC, 249 appearances and 106 goals a goal every 2.34 games. I loved the man. Still do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 2 hours ago, sage said: Try and bottle of port and a collection of John Major speeches. You'll be nodding of before the cones hotline. Until he starts talking about Edwina, then I'm lumbered with an erection I need to get rid of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 36 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: those initial signings under Clement, if attributable to McClaren, were clearly budget signings, made before Mel's deal was truly struck. I wouldn't say they were particularly worse than Clough's, just they were lesser than the level of new expectation. I could argue about Clough's permanents, but he did as much relying on Davies/Jewell signings than what McClaren relied/relies on Clough signings. McClaren wasn't here before the Wembley season?? Ince a budget signing? Bent (wages) a budget signing? Weimann a budget signing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 23 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: Until he starts talking about Edwina, then I'm lumbered with an erection I need to get rid of... A guilty one indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 19 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: 'success' is subjective. I couldn't say definitively compared to McClaren, but not much in it. Not sure McClaren has money to waste, and relied on loans and freebies, aside of maybe Christie (for the first team), and I'd say Nigel equally so. The Clement side of it was very odd, and I think cost him his job more than the slump did. He wasted money in my opinion, assuming he sanctioned every purchase. I could name successes and failures, in my opinion for both Clough and McClaren, as a outright number, there would be more on Clough, but he had 5 years worth. When I mentioned the costs in terms of deeming signing successful you called it ignorant and stupid. You've made points which suggest that there was money wasted yet in your other posts you go down the line of doesn't matter what they cost just whether they're good or bad. Well you've said MAC relied on loans and freebies and going on your previous posts this shouldn't matter when comparing them to how good or bad they were as signings. I fully agree with what you've said in this quoted post but it seems like the opposite of what was said in different threads? I haven't made my point well so far so here it is. Does how much money being spent contribute to whether a signing is deemed a success or failure? I'd say it would, you've previously said not but if that's the case there's no need to mention that MACs budget was different to Clements... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 are you familiar with "context" @IlsonDerby ? Conversation 1 is regarding judging a player by the money spent on him. Shouldn't be relevant. Conversation 2 is regarding how respective managers used the resources available to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 3 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: are you familiar with "context" @IlsonDerby ? Conversation 1 is regarding judging a player by the money spent on him. Shouldn't be relevant. Conversation 2 is regarding how respective managers used the resources available to them. Yes very, you see I have an extensive vocabulary without the need to condescend! It's a wonderful quality to have. Conversation 1 was me saying if two players performed at absolutely the same level then yes their price would sway me into thinking which of those were more successful as value for money also determines success. Conversation 2 is you saying MACs bad buys weren't as bad as Clements because he had a smaller budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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