i-Ram Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 4 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: Just wondering if those posters that spent the second half of last season, where I don't think we dropped out of the top 6, whining and moaning and acting as if everything had gone horribly wrong, as if the club and team were in turmoil, now feel ashamed, or silly, or over-dramatic. I believe in karma, and self-fulfilling prophecies, and think our current predicament should be a lesson to those (blah, blah, blah) Says the guy who has Mel with a clown face. You want to be careful buddy with this karma business. One day you will climb in your car and all four doors will fall off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 36 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: What's wrong with calling things as you see them at the time.. If we are poo in a particular game, then let's talk about us being said turd.. Birmingham last season, a great example. Flower it up all ya like, it was POO ! It's like some sort of forbidden subject.. Don't mention the poo or you are a negative half fan, knuckle dragging doom merchant who throws pints over middle aged cardigan wearing fans.. (Okay a bit of poetic licence there). But that's exactly what this forum has been missing of late, actually discussing the game. I know we won't see eye to eye on many things but I would love to read why you thought Saturday was turd, what went wrong, individual player performances over the other dramatised stuff we're treated to after every game, how the club is a mess, walking disaster, worst team ever to pull a Derby shirt on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 28 minutes ago, i-Ram said: Says the guy who has Mel with a clown face. You want to be careful buddy with this karma business. One day you will climb in your car and all four doors will fall off. it's more to showcase the skills of my owd mate @wixman1884 to be fair. But you really made me lol. everyone in office looked at me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loweman2 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 It must have been due to the disappearance of the karma chameleon, he comes and goes ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 39 minutes ago, David said: But that's exactly what this forum has been missing of late, actually discussing the game. I know we won't see eye to eye on many things but I would love to read why you thought Saturday was turd, what went wrong, individual player performances over the other dramatised stuff we're treated to after every game, how the club is a mess, walking disaster, worst team ever to pull a Derby shirt on. I agree, we don't discuss actual games properly. I did not actually go on Saturday, one of the few aways I have missed for many a year now, that's why I have made no specific comment on that game on any thread. Bar the comment that we again threw away a decent position in the game, on this thread. You don't have to be there comment on that fact. I would only comment on team performance and players individually if I had seen it live or on TV. Better live though. I dont think I made any reference to Saturday being 'turd'. Birmingham last season, yes.. Turd is a modest way of putting that performance. As I said in my post, we have extreames at both ends.. '' how the club is a mess, walking disaster, worst team ever to pull a Derby shirt on.'' Doom merchant? Yes. It all good, Mel's a Derby fan, Mac is back, it's 2014 again and everything will be the same.. In some ways not so different. Both wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 48 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: I agree, we don't discuss actual games properly. I did not actually go on Saturday, one of the few aways I have missed for many a year now, that's why I have made no specific comment on that game on any thread. Bar the comment that we again threw away a decent position in the game, on this thread. You don't have to be there comment on that fact. I would only comment on team performance and players individually if I had seen it live or on TV. Better live though. I dont think I made any reference to Saturday being 'turd'. Birmingham last season, yes.. Turd is a modest way of putting that performance. As I said in my post, we have extreames at both ends.. '' how the club is a mess, walking disaster, worst team ever to pull a Derby shirt on.'' Doom merchant? Yes. It all good, Mel's a Derby fan, Mac is back, it's 2014 again and everything will be the same.. In some ways not so different. Both wrong. Away games do tend to draw in less comments on the game itself for obvious reasons, didn't mean to suggest you thought Saturday was turd, just turd in general as to be fair many games could be described as that this season, but even home games have gone by with little talk on the game itself. I have no problems with people chirping in on what they heard on the radio or TV, ill informed comments on the game through Ed Dawes or whoever are far better than some of the stuff recently although a 5pm long winded we're completely rubbish topic after an away game does grind my gears some what. The line is somewhere in the middle as I think you're suggesting, even the hardened "happy clappers" can see everything isn't rosy, probably comes across that everything is hunky dory as they try to reason with the "wrist slashers" that are going nuts. I would probably be categorised as a happy clapper as a result, the Kevin Phillips and Chris Evans topics as recent examples and the sausages won't have helped, truth is I'm very much in the middle, I've got a splinter in my arse over the McClaren reappointment, both cheeks firmly wedged on either side of the fence. 3 out of the 4 home games I've been to have resulted in a 0-0, to see one goal this season, 2 if you count Grimsby in the cup is ridiculous from this squad of players, far from being happy with a 6hr round trip and £900 on ST's to watch this but for me to sit here and suggest the club is a mess, sell the lot, find a new owner and start from scratch would also be ridiculous. Been far worse times than these, more middle ground is definitely needed, hopefully 5pm on Saturday we have a decent game and result to actually talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casio Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 30 minutes ago, David said: Been far worse times than these, more middle ground is definitely needed, hopefully 5pm on Saturday we have a decent game and result to actually talk about. This is very true, fans are so expectant at the moment and has been this way ever since January last year. I actually joined this forum as I was sick of going to the games and hearing the boo's, the moans on the walk home about how player x needs to be sold and coach y is a waste of space. I wanted to to voice my beliefs that everything isn't that bad and I truly believe the negativity in Derby, wears on the team as a whole as you can feel a negative atmosphere at the iPro, and that isn't just this season. It is a shame as I feel the fans lack of patience has affected Mel Morris's decision making processes, in turn has brought him criticism from the same fans. Catch 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 20 minutes ago, David said: Away games do tend to draw in less comments on the game itself for obvious reasons, didn't mean to suggest you thought Saturday was turd, just turd in general as to be fair many games could be described as that this season, but even home games have gone by with little talk on the game itself. I have no problems with people chirping in on what they heard on the radio or TV, ill informed comments on the game through Ed Dawes or whoever are far better than some of the stuff recently although a 5pm long winded we're completely rubbish topic after an away game does grind my gears some what. The line is somewhere in the middle as I think you're suggesting, even the hardened "happy clappers" can see everything isn't rosy, probably comes across that everything is hunky dory as they try to reason with the "wrist slashers" that are going nuts. I would probably be categorised as a happy clapper as a result, the Kevin Phillips and Chris Evans topics as recent examples and the sausages won't have helped, truth is I'm very much in the middle, I've got a splinter in my arse over the McClaren reappointment, both cheeks firmly wedged on either side of the fence. 3 out of the 4 home games I've been to have resulted in a 0-0, to see one goal this season, 2 if you count Grimsby in the cup is ridiculous from this squad of players, far from being happy with a 6hr round trip and £900 on ST's to watch this but for me to sit here and suggest the club is a mess, sell the lot, find a new owner and start from scratch would also be ridiculous. Been far worse times than these, more middle ground is definitely needed, hopefully 5pm on Saturday we have a decent game and result to actually talk about. Don't think I have ever sat on the fence on something but I know what you mean with Mac.. I am desperate for him to succeed but every part of me thinks this is another bad decision from the club. Hope I am wrong and big enough to come on here and eat humble pie... Yes I have seen worse times, I guess most of us have but some seem to think that makes what we are seeing now as almost acceptable as it isn't not as bad as last time. It's just a different kind of bad and should still be debated. I think most Derby fans know our place as a club.. The odd flirt with something special and then years of mediocre rubbish. I'm okay with that.. The circle of life as Elton would say. It's weird but under Clough I never really got that pee'd off over crap week in week out. I just expected crap.. What annoys me most with the current bunch is that we have all seen the potential and now they are not getting anywhere near it.. Grrrr... Expectation is a mill stone but also something that a professional footballer and club needs to embrace, not shy away from... Its life.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 56 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Don't think I have ever sat on the fence on something but I know what you mean with Mac.. I am desperate for him to succeed but every part of me thinks this is another bad decision from the club. Hope I am wrong and big enough to come on here and eat humble pie... Yes I have seen worse times, I guess most of us have but some seem to think that makes what we are seeing now as almost acceptable as it isn't not as bad as last time. It's just a different kind of bad and should still be debated. I think most Derby fans know our place as a club.. The odd flirt with something special and then years of mediocre rubbish. I'm okay with that.. The circle of life as Elton would say. It's weird but under Clough I never really got that pee'd off over crap week in week out. I just expected crap.. What annoys me most with the current bunch is that we have all seen the potential and now they are not getting anywhere near it.. Grrrr... Expectation is a mill stone but also something that a professional footballer and club needs to embrace, not shy away from... Its life.. You won't find many examples of managers being sacked, going back to a club and turning out to be a success....then again you don't see many clubs finishing on 11 points in the Premier League. I was sceptical when he first arrived in 2013 but quickly grew fond of him, was hard not to, absolutely gutted to see him go on what appeared to be results based until we went down to Moor Farm and heard from Mel what had gone on, was strange hearing an owner talk so positively about a manager that we had just sacked but his heart wasn't at Derby, wanted to be at Newcastle and that's fair enough. When we went down to see him the other week he ate plenty of humble pie himself, had crumbs all round his mouth, part of The Derby Way appears to be born from the 13/14 season, McClaren created the blueprints and with Clement and Pearson both shown these in the interview process then completely go the opposite I'm guessing Mel had a choice of third time lucky or swallow some pride and bring back the creator which comes with it's own risks. I understand the thought process behind it all, makes sense and it's hard not to feel a little excited by the chance of seeing the same football again but it's also difficult to shift that never go back this has disaster written all over it thought. Having that chance to hear from the club directly has been great, when you're sat face to face and hearing the owner, CEO, manager explaining the reasoning for the clubs decisions things do make a lot of sense sausages or no sausages. I wish we could have taken more members down to these meetings, it's great to hear the club are starting their pub crawl again, encourage anyone that hasn't been to attend one. Hopefully this regular committee can go some way in keeping the communication lines open between fans and club, and more importantly the information is relayed back to fans, we've seen this season how vital that is with all the confusion. If it does go Pete Tong I wouldn't criticise the club for trying it, (happy clapper status comfirmed), every appointment is a risk and there wasn't many unemployed options out there. Steve Bruce possibly although I'm sure Villa were sounding him out before sacking RDM and convincing any club to part with their manager at this stage of the season would always be difficult. To think Pearson was the front runner when Clement went, the name most were calling for and look how that one turned out, almost convinced be down from the fence at one point. You've nailed it with the expectation, despite the performances this season the potential is there with this squad and that's why it's so frustrating watching the performances this season. Had it been a Clough squad in the GSE days you accept it as you know the squad is fairly average.....until a Steve McClaren walks through the door with his magic wand. Anyway, if you've made it this far I've written waaaay to much in this thread now and got a few things off my chest so I'll bow out now and allow Mostyn to explain his Karma beliefs as I'm waiting to hear why I deserve the performances we've seen this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 9 hours ago, David said: If Derby have failed we have only failed personal expectations, not those of the club. To quote a piece of a post in another topic.... "Our rightful position" since when have Derby County had a right to be in the Premier League? I'm 34 years old, in my entire lifetime we have had just 11 seasons in the top flight, in the last 15 years just one season, cheers Billy, what a ball that was. I find the idea that we have any right to be in the Premier League completely mind boggling. You can have the best attendances, ground, training facilities in the league, you can spend the most on transfer fees but none of that gives you a right to be in the Premier League or even the Championship. Forest and Leeds have gone down, both with the same mind boggling belief they should be in the Premier League, Forest are closing in on 20 years since being in the top flight but they won a couple of trophies a few years back so you know, they deserve a place right. Said it before the other day, what made 13/14 so special was in part the lack of expectation after being drained of it for years. Some could do with the same reset to calm down a touch. A lot of Royal Engineers fans round here still expect to get to Wembley every year the fa cup first pre- preliminary qualifying round is drawn. Well they did win it 140 odd years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 12 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: Just wondering if those posters that spent the second half of last season, where I don't think we dropped out of the top 6, whining and moaning and acting as if everything had gone horribly wrong, as if the club and team were in turmoil, now feel ashamed, or silly, or over-dramatic. I believe in karma, and self-fulfilling prophecies, and think our current predicament should be a lesson to those of you that didn't see and appreciate how good things actually were. It's a falsehood to say that we've had 3 years of failure, as really, we've had 3 seasons of being involved, yet now, we are way off the pace and this season is true failure (thus far). Let this be a lesson to ya. When things are good, enjoy it. I lost count of the amount of people describing performances and results last season as "the worst game I've ever seen". Absolute bullsausage. Now look at us. I agree. A lot of posters moaned about Clough's recruitment and look at it since. Karma, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Interesting thread. My old man took me to the council houses to see one of the championship trophies being handed around. I was 4 at the time. Remember the event but had no idea of the circumstances around it. Then I was a pop sider for years and followed Mansfield ( I am not proud ) if we weren't playing. Was interested in the Game, not the position of the club. Last night I was at Liverpool v spurs (free ticket, Guv ) and it was nice to be able to watch a match without thinking about what it should mean. Today I was chatting to one of my brother in laws and he was talking about the difficulty of being a Blackpool supporter where he wants to support the team but not the club. But of a long way around saying that we aren't on football manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 7 hours ago, sage said: I agree. A lot of posters moaned about Clough's recruitment and look at it since. Karma, It was hit and miss, same as everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 17 hours ago, i-Ram said: Says the guy who has Mel with a clown face. You want to be careful buddy with this karma business. One day you will climb in your car and all four doors will fall off. If it's still got a wheel or two, what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 2 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: It was hit and miss, same as everyone. Mattered a little bit less when we were spending £300k on a player or a loan or a freebie in comparison to spending millions. For the money we spent our squad should have been improved massively. Others have spent a lot less and have over taken us. I don't think I'll ever forgive Clement for that summer setting us back years. Yes it was brilliant as a fan to see all these new faces signing but we should be allowed to get excited, it isn't our jobs to worry about whether they'll fit into our system. People are paid to make those observations on our behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: Mattered a little bit less when we were spending £300k on a player or a loan or a freebie in comparison to spending millions. For the money we spent our squad should have been improved massively shouldn't matter one bit. It wasn't YOUR money. The only thing to consider is whether the player is good or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: shouldn't matter one bit. It wasn't YOUR money. The only thing to consider is whether the player is good or not. You can say all of our 1st team players are 'good', as a combined team though they are not good. We have had some awful purchases this year, Balckmann, Camara etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Last summer was a bad window, but not all Clement's doing. Bent (free, good on loan) , Weimann (cheapish, pl), Carson (turned out ok) I think were well developed before Clement came in. The daft transfers in my view were Ince and Shackell. We seemed determined that it was those two we needed and spent too long and too much on getting them in. Butterfield we liked at about a third the price we ended up playing. Johnson.....panic buy after that opening game. Four transfers in the summer wasted a lot of investment. Then January......??? OK Paul, you can have the players you want. OK Mel, I want Nick Blackman and someone who can run very very very fast. ......cheers Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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