Premier League? Are we NOT having a laugh?

[Half fan]

There is so much dismay, bewilderment and frustration on this site as to why our team keeps failing, that it often boils over into slanging matches between us which are equally dismaying.

So might it be helpful to stand back from the week to week disappointments and ask:  why are our hopes so high but constantly dashed?

Obviously the reason for our high hopes is our belief that we should be in the Premier League - as Uncle Mel once said, it's not if but when.  And there are lots of reasons for us to expect to be in the Premier League.

• Stadium capacity and quality? Tick.
• Average attendances higher than many Premier League clubs? Tick.
• Fans' forum which boosts our 'brand' with an enviable clarity, ease of use and (often) insightful contributions? Tick.
• Training facilities? Tick.
• Ambitious owner? Tick.
• Wealthy owner willing and able to invest in facilities, management and players? Tick.
• Chief Executive ranked highly in his field? Tick.
• Good teamwork between the Executive and the Fanbase? Tick.
• Recently employed one of the best coaches in Europe? Tick.
• Recently employed a manager who has achieved promotion to, and eventual success in, the Premier League? Tick.
• Currently employing (again) one of the best English coaches? Tick.
• A large squad with depth in quality containing many past or current full internationals? Tick.
• A well-regarded Academy with some renowned 'graduates'.

What an impressive list of credentials! It's hard to find any important missing ingredient - except enough points at the end of season after season to achieve promotion, or to maintain it. Much easier to find unwanted records and statistics.

So why has DCFC a 14 years' track record of failure to achieve what we all expect and believe to be our rightful position?

Fourteen years!

Are we jinxed or cursed? I am struggling for a real long term reason.

Or are we simply meant to be a Championship Club - very unlikely to be relegated this season or ever, but equally unlikely to  be promoted, let alone stay up there for more than a year? In which case, how much happier might we be if we simply accepted our fate?

Being a fan is supposed to be enjoyable. So maybe a dose of realism and accepting our lot, is all we need?

Blue touch paper lit!

Enjoy!

 

[simsdcfc]

Think its because we simply aint good enough.

All the gear no idea springs to mind

[Pearl Ram]

Aye, and All the dough, no mojo. 

[North East Ram]

it's a funny one to fathom out. Actually, it's annoying and frustrating tbh. We've had about 7 decent seasons in the last 25 years. In fact, this is one of the leanest times in our history. Even when we were in Div3, we'd been league champs relatively recently. The good news is that we always get back eventually - i just hope it's soon and we stay there for a while this time. There's always next season...

[Millenniumram]

It really is quite staggering when you step back and look at the length of time we have been stuck down here in the second division when you compare it with the rest of our history and it really is an enigma in what has actually gone wrong. When you think that teams like Swansea have beaten us back up and they came from much further down, and bloody Bournemouth have had to beg for donations to save their club and still beaten us to the prem there has to be real concerns about the club.

Progress was immesnsely slow for many years and still now we cannot build a team to successfully reach the prem despite everything you've said above, yet the answer to a long term reason why is still not known. Sure mistakes have been made but it seems almost like our club is broken, and it must be said we're not the only ones, Leeds and the grumps are in the same boat and even to a lesser extent Newcastle.

Sometimes I think that that fateful spell in the premier still hangs over the club and leaves an air over the club leading to this lack of confidence within the club especially in the supporters. It seems ridiculous but really it's difficult to think of any sane reason why we're still stuck here, other than we've continuously made loads of **** ups in the club as a whole. Having only ever witnessed Derby win one premier league game in my life i can't actually imagine what it was like when we were up there with the bets, but I'm sure those who have didn't expect us to be out for this long...

[Bris Vegas]

Plenty of teams go up to the Premier League, plenty of teams come down again. The most successful have an identity, a way of playing and a balance in the squad which maximises potential.

Derby as a club have plenty of good things going for them off the pitch, but on the pitch, since our relegation in only three seasons have we looked like having some sort of identity and squad balance to both achieve promotion and potentially stay there.

The season under George Burley, playing 433, and the two seasons under McClaren playing 433.

Now I'm not saying 433 is the only formation we can play, but in those three seasons it's the only time we've actually played a system which gets the most out of a decent squad of players at our disposal.

Billy Davies was all about short-term success and moulded a pretty naff team to get promoted, but only the most deluded among us felt we could possibly compete in the PL playing the same way.

The squad needs an identity, it needs a specific playing style to not only help get us promoted, but make staying there a realistic proposition with the right sort of recruitment.

The likes of Southampton, Swansea, Stoke City, Bournemouth and Palace are all examples of recently promoted clubs who have stayed in the PL. The common denominator? They all had a specific style of play, an identity and built to play such a way. 

Over the past 15 years we've chopped and changed managers, players, playing style and ideas. We need to have a 'Derby Way', recruit players/managers to fit said identity and actually stay with it long-term.

The worst thing we can do us what we have done. Gone from McClaren, to Clement, to Pearson... Three different types of managers with their own contrasting ideas in terms of style of football and system. The fact we've had plenty of money to spend has actually worked against us, as it's seen a huge influx of players with different playing styles.

We need to go back to basics. McClaren has his style, he should know the responsibility and the attributes needed in each single position. We need to recruit specifically to what we need.

If there isa  good player available who doesn't fit, say a Tom Ince, let somebody else sign him! Buying so-called good players because they're available is such a mistake if they don't fit. they cause long-term problems.

Identity, shape, system, Derby Way.... Stick to it long-term, and reap the long-term success!

[Martinh]

Hello all. Please excuse my intrusion here. New member.

My affiliation to Derby is, I thought the world of Brian Clough.

Problem is, people like him don't come along too often, as evidenced.

The power must always remain with the owners, that is the way they wish it.

But intuition often eludes them.

You the supporters need to provide the answers.

I say it can be done.

Thank you for your time.

 

[RiddingsRam]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

Plenty of teams go up to the Premier League, plenty of teams come down again. The most successful have an identity, a way of playing and a balance in the squad which maximises potential.

Derby as a club have plenty of good things going for them off the pitch, but on the pitch, since our relegation in only three seasons have we looked like having some sort of identity and squad balance to both achieve promotion and potentially stay there.

The season under George Burley, playing 433, and the two seasons under McClaren playing 433.

Now I'm not saying 433 is the only formation we can play, but in those three seasons it's the only time we've actually played a system which gets the most out of a decent squad of players at our disposal.

Billy Davies was all about short-term success and moulded a pretty naff team to get promoted, but only the most deluded among us felt we could possibly compete in the PL playing the same way.

The squad needs an identity, it needs a specific playing style to not only help get us promoted, but make staying there a realistic proposition with the right sort of recruitment.

The likes of Southampton, Swansea, Stoke City, Bournemouth and Palace are all examples of recently promoted clubs who have stayed in the PL. The common denominator? They all had a specific style of play, an identity and built to play such a way. 

Over the past 15 years we've chopped and changed managers, players, playing style and ideas. We need to have a 'Derby Way', recruit players/managers to fit said identity and actually stay with it long-term.

The worst thing we can do us what we have done. Gone from McClaren, to Clement, to Pearson... Three different types of managers with their own contrasting ideas in terms of style of football and system. The fact we've had plenty of money to spend has actually worked against us, as it's seen a huge influx of players with different playing styles.

We need to go back to basics. McClaren has his style, he should know the responsibility and the attributes needed in each single position. We need to recruit specifically to what we need.

If there isa  good player available who doesn't fit, say a Tom Ince, let somebody else sign him! Buying so-called good players because they're available is such a mistake if they don't fit. they cause long-term problems.

Identity, shape, system, Derby Way.... Stick to it long-term, and reap the long-term success!

Top post Bris ! 100 % agree , dececide on a style / philosophy and stick with it.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

Plenty of teams go up to the Premier League, plenty of teams come down again. The most successful have an identity, a way of playing and a balance in the squad which maximises potential.

Derby as a club have plenty of good things going for them off the pitch, but on the pitch, since our relegation in only three seasons have we looked like having some sort of identity and squad balance to both achieve promotion and potentially stay there.

The season under George Burley, playing 433, and the two seasons under McClaren playing 433.

Now I'm not saying 433 is the only formation we can play, but in those three seasons it's the only time we've actually played a system which gets the most out of a decent squad of players at our disposal.

Billy Davies was all about short-term success and moulded a pretty naff team to get promoted, but only the most deluded among us felt we could possibly compete in the PL playing the same way.

The squad needs an identity, it needs a specific playing style to not only help get us promoted, but make staying there a realistic proposition with the right sort of recruitment.

The likes of Southampton, Swansea, Stoke City, Bournemouth and Palace are all examples of recently promoted clubs who have stayed in the PL. The common denominator? They all had a specific style of play, an identity and built to play such a way. 

Over the past 15 years we've chopped and changed managers, players, playing style and ideas. We need to have a 'Derby Way', recruit players/managers to fit said identity and actually stay with it long-term.

The worst thing we can do us what we have done. Gone from McClaren, to Clement, to Pearson... Three different types of managers with their own contrasting ideas in terms of style of football and system. The fact we've had plenty of money to spend has actually worked against us, as it's seen a huge influx of players with different playing styles.

We need to go back to basics. McClaren has his style, he should know the responsibility and the attributes needed in each single position. We need to recruit specifically to what we need.

If there isa  good player available who doesn't fit, say a Tom Ince, let somebody else sign him! Buying so-called good players because they're available is such a mistake if they don't fit. they cause long-term problems.

Identity, shape, system, Derby Way.... Stick to it long-term, and reap the long-term success!

Sounds very much like David Brent style management week saying the current buzzwords to me if I'm being honest.

Teams evolve and I think you will struggle to find many teams that play the same system today that they did even 4 or 5 years ago.

I do agree with recruiting players that suit your system at the time though which is something we clearly haven't done.

[Philmycock]

14 years? Billy Davies might disagree with that.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, Martinh said:

Hello all. Please excuse my intrusion here. New member.

My affiliation to Derby is, I thought the world of Brian Clough.

Problem is, people like him don't come along too often, as evidenced.

The power must always remain with the owners, that is the way they wish it.

But intuition often eludes them.

You the supporters need to provide the answers.

I say it can be done.

Thank you for your time.

I personally look forward to your next intrusion.

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

3 hours ago, EastHertsRam said:

Aye, and All the dough, no mojo. 

All that cash in the bank, we've become a bag of ...... 

[barnsley ram]

5 hours ago, Half fan said:

There is so much dismay, bewilderment and frustration on this site as to why our team keeps failing, that it often boils over into slanging matches between us which are equally dismaying.

So might it be helpful to stand back from the week to week disappointments and ask:  why are our hopes so high but constantly dashed?

Obviously the reason for our high hopes is our belief that we should be in the Premier League - as Uncle Mel once said, it's not if but when.  And there are lots of reasons for us to expect to be in the Premier League.

• Stadium capacity and quality? Tick.
• Average attendances higher than many Premier League clubs? Tick.
• Fans' forum which boosts our 'brand' with an enviable clarity, ease of use and (often) insightful contributions? Tick.
• Training facilities? Tick.
• Ambitious owner? Tick.
• Wealthy owner willing and able to invest in facilities, management and players? Tick.
• Chief Executive ranked highly in his field? Tick.
• Good teamwork between the Executive and the Fanbase? Tick.
• Recently employed one of the best coaches in Europe? Tick.
• Recently employed a manager who has achieved promotion to, and eventual success in, the Premier League? Tick.
• Currently employing (again) one of the best English coaches? Tick.
• A large squad with depth in quality containing many past or current full internationals? Tick.
• A well-regarded Academy with some renowned 'graduates'.

What an impressive list of credentials! It's hard to find any important missing ingredient - except enough points at the end of season after season to achieve promotion, or to maintain it. Much easier to find unwanted records and statistics.

So why has DCFC a 14 years' track record of failure to achieve what we all expect and believe to be our rightful position?

Fourteen years!

Are we jinxed or cursed? I am struggling for a real long term reason.

Or are we simply meant to be a Championship Club - very unlikely to be relegated this season or ever, but equally unlikely to  be promoted, let alone stay up there for more than a year? In which case, how much happier might we be if we simply accepted our fate?

Being a fan is supposed to be enjoyable. So maybe a dose of realism and accepting our lot, is all we need?

Blue touch paper lit!

Enjoy!

 

excellent quote much sense spoken

[Seth's left foot]

7 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Plenty of teams go up to the Premier League, plenty of teams come down again. The most successful have an identity, a way of playing and a balance in the squad which maximises potential.

Derby as a club have plenty of good things going for them off the pitch, but on the pitch, since our relegation in only three seasons have we looked like having some sort of identity and squad balance to both achieve promotion and potentially stay there.

The season under George Burley, playing 433, and the two seasons under McClaren playing 433.

Now I'm not saying 433 is the only formation we can play, but in those three seasons it's the only time we've actually played a system which gets the most out of a decent squad of players at our disposal.

Billy Davies was all about short-term success and moulded a pretty naff team to get promoted, but only the most deluded among us felt we could possibly compete in the PL playing the same way.

The squad needs an identity, it needs a specific playing style to not only help get us promoted, but make staying there a realistic proposition with the right sort of recruitment.

The likes of Southampton, Swansea, Stoke City, Bournemouth and Palace are all examples of recently promoted clubs who have stayed in the PL. The common denominator? They all had a specific style of play, an identity and built to play such a way. 

Over the past 15 years we've chopped and changed managers, players, playing style and ideas. We need to have a 'Derby Way', recruit players/managers to fit said identity and actually stay with it long-term.

The worst thing we can do us what we have done. Gone from McClaren, to Clement, to Pearson... Three different types of managers with their own contrasting ideas in terms of style of football and system. The fact we've had plenty of money to spend has actually worked against us, as it's seen a huge influx of players with different playing styles.

We need to go back to basics. McClaren has his style, he should know the responsibility and the attributes needed in each single position. We need to recruit specifically to what we need.

If there isa  good player available who doesn't fit, say a Tom Ince, let somebody else sign him! Buying so-called good players because they're available is such a mistake if they don't fit. they cause long-term problems.

Identity, shape, system, Derby Way.... Stick to it long-term, and reap the long-term success!

What he said.

[Bris Vegas]

7 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Sounds very much like David Brent style management week saying the current buzzwords to me if I'm being honest.

Teams evolve and I think you will struggle to find many teams that play the same system today that they did even 4 or 5 years ago.

I do agree with recruiting players that suit your system at the time though which is something we clearly haven't done.

Teams evolve, they generally get better with better players. What teams shouldn't do is change style or philosophy at the drop of a hat, especially when a specific playing style has been successful.

Also, shape may change somewhat, but successful teams have generally played the same way for years. United under SAF always played quick, direct football with genuine wide players. Sure, he and Arsene Wenger gradually went from 442 to 4231 as football evolved, but the philosophy remained the same.

They didn't suddenly after five years start playing long-ball, and having every men behind the ball.

Perhaps Arsenal and United are easy... What about Southampton and Swansea? They still have the same philosophy and principles, while again shape may have been altered.

Tony Pulis played the same way at Stoke for years. If he's still West Brom boss in five years time, I guarantee they will be playing the same type of football as they do now. They're not suddenly going to start playing possession-based football with a high press and small, intricate forwards.

Teams that have changed philosophies at the drop of the hat have generally struggled. Both Bolton and Blackburn struggled after Allardyce left them as Coyle and Keane tried different approaches.

Reading were always direct under Steve Coppell, Brendan Rodgers went there and last about three months before getting sacked as he tried to implement a possession-based style. Brian McDermott took over, they went direct again and subsequently won the Championship.

Howe struggled at Burnley, whereas Dyche went there and took them up in his first or second season. Their styles couldn't be more different.

Looking back now, how ridiculous was the Phil Brown appointment? After moulding a squad to play quick, possession-based football under George Burley, we then hired Sam Allardyce's right-hand man to follow him. No wonder we quickly went from a playoff side to near relegation. Deja vu under Pearson.

Derby need to place 100% faith in a philosphy and style, and simply stick to it long-term. IMO, possession-based football will always reap more success than reactive percentage football. We just need to be patient.

[t'oldu]

Perhaps the jinx will go when Sunderland re-claim their 'lowest points in the prem.' record .........

[Muskination]

4 minutes ago, t'oldu said:

Perhaps the jinx will go when Sunderland re-claim their 'lowest points in the prem.' record .........

That's what I thought was going to happen with Villa last year, and the slow starter before that, and the slow starter before that...

[Anag Ram]

Too many players fleet of foot but lacking in good old-fashioned football sense.

Do the simple things and do them well.

Work hard whether in possession or not. Support your team-mates like a band of brothers.

Bust a gut to score and to stop them scoring.

Do anything your opponents don't want you to.

If you're not moving, ask yourself why.

It's like our recruitment has been done on highlights clips.

We need a greater understanding of players' mental strength, their ambition and their teamwork.

Then my friends we will reach the promised land.

[Mostyn6]

once the players have mastered the art of WHEN to release the ball, the goals will come. The goals will come and the points will come. The points will come and the higher league positions will come.

Personally I couldn't care less if we are in the PL or even in League 1, as long as my team is trying to win and I am entertained.

I never wanted Pearson, cos I wanted entertainment, not promotion at any cost.

I don't want Promotion if it's playing unsustainable football, like in 2007/08. Bris is right.

[t'oldu]

And Ramage will never be able to pronounce the players names.