Day Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 What I don't understand is following a result like Saturday the forum is filled with X players are not good enough, overrated, we need a complete rebuild....yet at the same time we should be beating Huddersfield comfortably or 0-0 against Brentford isn't a good result. If these players are not good enough why the fallout after a defeat to a club 3rd in the table? Frustration what it is, which is understandable but some take it waaaay to far. We all know these players can play far better than they have this season and that's the cause of the frustration, should we be performing better v Huddersfield? yes but we should be performing a lot better than we have in every game we've played so far but that doesn't mean we should expect to beat Huddersfield, Rotherham, Forest whoever. The lack of expectation is what helped to make 13/14 so special, the whole atmosphere around the club is the best it's been for years. Hopefully a few more days on the training ground with McClaren can get us back on track, January needs a few tweeks but not the total rebuild some are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 1 minute ago, David said: What I don't understand is following a result like Saturday the forum is filled with X players are not good enough, overrated, we need a complete rebuild....yet at the same time we should be beating Huddersfield comfortably or 0-0 against Brentford isn't a good result. If these players are not good enough why the fallout after a defeat to a club 3rd in the table? Frustration what it is, which is understandable but some take it waaaay to far. We all know these players can play far better than they have this season and that's the cause of the frustration, should we be performing better v Huddersfield? yes but we should be performing a lot better than we have in every game we've played so far but that doesn't mean we should expect to beat Huddersfield, Rotherham, Forest whoever. The lack of expectation is what helped to make 13/14 so special, the whole atmosphere around the club is the best it's been for years. Hopefully a few more days on the training ground with McClaren can get us back on track, January needs a few tweeks but not the total rebuild some are talking about. Agree with completely everything you've said particularly about McClaren needing time on the training pitch. However I do think the answer (with regards transfers) will ultimately be somewhere in between a few tweeks and a total rebuild, more of a renovation if you will. We are carrying a reasonable amount of dead-weight in the squad who just don't seem to fit or are not good enough and we do need a couple players in key positions but I do believe we have a nucleus of good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Le Mesmer Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 1 hour ago, brady1993 said: I'd normally agree with this mentality but you're missing a massive problem with this mentality. We currently don't have the energy levels required to play the way we are trying to for the full 90 and it's noticeable that we have run out of steam around the 70 min mark. Therefore trying to 'really go for it' in the last 20 against a side who have been flying this season would have been a disaster and honestly was the sensible decision from McClaren. Maybe go for it in the first 70 then, get a lead and then hang on? Not hold out for a draw for 90 odd minutes. If we go a goal down early on then fair enough. I'd rather lose 1-0 trying to win than scrape a 0-0 trying not to lose. Or in fact lose trying not to lose which is apparently what happened at Huddersfield. Football is about entertainment. If I wanted to be bored out of my skull every week I'd go and watch snooker or something instead. Not criticising, just saying my opinion of how I expect a little bit more adventure given we have one of the best squads on the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said: Maybe go for it in the first 70 then, get a lead and then hang on? Not hold out for a draw for 90 odd minutes. If we go a goal down early on then fair enough. I'd rather lose 1-0 trying to win than scrape a 0-0 trying not to lose. Or in fact lose trying not to lose which is apparently what happened at Huddersfield. Oh I agree with you completely but I didn't get the impression that was the case (I didn't go, so I can't be sure). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Le Mesmer Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 10 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Oh I agree with you completely but I didn't get the impression that was the case (I didn't go, so I can't be sure). Me neither. I think to be fair we've generally gone out to try and get the lead but often failed to do so at home apart from Blackburn where we inexplicably lost and Leeds where we could have easily drawn that in the end. At home anyway. I'm not commenting specifically about Derby but more teams in general. Teams of similar personnel should just go out every game home and away to win. I can understand maybe teams like Hull or Burnley not going gung ho away at the likes of Chelsea for example but other than Newcastle and Norwich we should be going away from home to any club in this league and giving them a rough ride. I'm not taking other teams for granted as I respect them all but its 11 v 11. They aren't superhuman. Huddersfield were not to be underestimated but they're not Barcelona. It is possible to go there and attack them and get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 24 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said: Not criticising, just saying my opinion of how I expect a little bit more adventure given we have one of the best squads on the division. Says who? Best how - by how much they're paid? I bet we've got the least number of 'real' strikers/goalscorers in the division. In which case where do you think the adventure is gonna come from?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 51 minutes ago, David said: What I don't understand is following a result like Saturday the forum is filled with X players are not good enough, overrated, we need a complete rebuild....yet at the same time we should be beating Huddersfield comfortably or 0-0 against Brentford isn't a good result. If these players are not good enough why the fallout after a defeat to a club 3rd in the table? Frustration what it is, which is understandable but some take it waaaay to far. We all know these players can play far better than they have this season and that's the cause of the frustration, should we be performing better v Huddersfield? yes but we should be performing a lot better than we have in every game we've played so far but that doesn't mean we should expect to beat Huddersfield, Rotherham, Forest whoever. The lack of expectation is what helped to make 13/14 so special, the whole atmosphere around the club is the best it's been for years. Hopefully a few more days on the training ground with McClaren can get us back on track, January needs a few tweeks but not the total rebuild some are talking about. Agree there's a contradiction on peoples views regards beating clubs like Huddersfield then saying our players are overrated ,, I don't include myself in this as I don't expect to beat anyone automatically unless we earn it,, totally and utterly disagree that a few tweaks and a few days on the training pitch with Mac is anywhere near enough ,, Mac has been very clear that what he inherited from clough just needed a few tweaks it had hungry players with a good team spirit ,, gone ,gone gone ,, I keep hearing about our expectations as fans being to high and that being the problem ,,, perhaps it's the players who have unrealistic expectations based on their ability and commitment and that's why we need a total rebuild ,,,, these players are lost up their own backsides ,, nothing ,,absolutely nothing happens for you in this division unless you earn it and I mean earn it,,, I'm sick to death of so called less talented teams outworking and outfighting us ,,, our team / squad is either nowhere near as good we and they think they are or they are as good as they think but don't have the right attitude and workrate for it to mean a can of worms ,,, it's a rebuild more seasons written off early along with managers and backroom staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Just now, archied said: Agree there's a contradiction on peoples views regards beating clubs like Huddersfield then saying our players are overrated ,, I don't include myself in this as I don't expect to beat anyone automatically unless we earn it,, totally and utterly disagree that a few tweaks and a few days on the training pitch with Mac is anywhere near enough ,, Mac has been very clear that what he inherited from clough just needed a few tweaks it had hungry players with a good team spirit ,, gone ,gone gone ,, I keep hearing about our expectations as fans being to high and that being the problem ,,, perhaps it's the players who have unrealistic expectations based on their ability and commitment and that's why we need a total rebuild ,,,, these players are lost up their own backsides ,, nothing ,,absolutely nothing happens for you in this division unless you earn it and I mean earn it,,, I'm sick to death of so called less talented teams outworking and outfighting us ,,, our team / squad is either nowhere near as good we and they think they are or they are as good as they think but don't have the right attitude and workrate for it to mean a can of worms ,,, it's a rebuild more seasons written off early along with managers and backroom staff We've had 2 play off runs in the last 3 seasons with the majority of this squad, struggle to see why a total rebuild will be needed. This season has been nothing short of awful but the defence despite the odd clanger has held up well, 2nd best in the league to be precise, would have major concerns in the Premier League but Championship they can hold their own. Problems are in the final third which need "tweaking", we've also been desperate for a Keane/Vieira type figure in the middle for years now....and not Joey Barton! Just a bit nicey nice, at the minute. 2 or 3 in, 2 or 3 out. Have to be careful in January with the over inflated costs, might be worth waiting till the summer, see where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I sometimes wish the wrist-slashers would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Don't see myself as a wrist slasher nor a happy clapper really just think at this point what we need more than anything is some brutal honesty regarding where we are team and squad wise ,, we have totally lost our way in the onfield area of the club , there's next to nobody in our squad turning out anything of any quality even on an odd match basis ,never mind with any consistency and we are making excuses rather than face the truth , it's clement , it's wassell , it's Pearson ,it's the formation ,they are being played out of position, they are being asked to play a slightly different role or produce more than just what they consider their strengths ,,,, this group of players are either not good enough or good enough but not prepared to go to the limit work and attitude wise , it's that simple , they are lauded , paid very well , have amongst the best facilities in the country , play in fantastic stadium to big crowds ,yet we sit bottom 4 ,, these players that can only play 4/3/3 have now forgotten how to play that way cause they played 9 games in 4/4/2 ,, ? Rebuild and rebuild with a smattering of players that just may cut it in the prem if we go up cause this lot wont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyJumper Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 11 hours ago, europia said: All this talk about hanging on..... we were playing Huddersfied Town and we should be beating them, comfortably. Base on what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 12 hours ago, WoollyJumper said: Base on what exactly? Significant financial backing from the owner, fan base, size of playing squad, value of playing squad, investment in academy, pedigree of individual players etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyJumper Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 10 hours ago, europia said: Significant financial backing from the owner, fan base, size of playing squad, value of playing squad, investment in academy, pedigree of individual players etc I think that would contribute to an expectation, and not a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, WoollyJumper said: I think that would contribute to an expectation, and not a given. It's ok though because the people with these expectations will understand that we cannot compete with teams with parachute payments on this basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyJumper Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 59 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: It's ok though because the people with these expectations will understand that we cannot compete with teams with parachute payments on this basis. Will or should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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