time for 'fans' to STOP making demands.

[Gaspode]

16 hours ago, Ewe Ram said:

I'm one of the anti boo brigade. NORMALLY. But this season is testing my patience and endurance......

I'm anti-boo (really don't see how it helps anyone in the long run) - so rather than boo, I've found that snoring is equally effective at getting your point across (and you get to have a nice nap as well) - I didn't choose to snore, it's just happened naturally during games this season.....

[Mostyn6]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

in the grand scheme of things are far from being one of the major problems yet you seem hell bent on placing as much blame on us as possible, just really not sure why.

fans are possibly the major problem at the moment. The fans are causing the apprehension and fear that has and is affecting the players.

It's been obvious for a long time that the core of this team is mentally weak, yet fans are too ignorant to notice this. It would be easy to not be ********* as fans, but our lot choose to continue to be such.

I blame the fans cos my opinion is the fans ruined the feelgood factor. Not the team, not the players, not even Newcastle United. At a time when we were coasting the league, fans were still aggressively criticising Forsyth, Keogh, Hendrick, Christie, Russell etc when real fans would be enjoying what was happening.

Back to the issue in this post. Fan reactions ruined a few promising things for me, one being Darren Wassall, and another being the Derby Way. You were there at breakfast. Whilst you may or may not have bought into MM's ideals, they were calculated and plausible. Yet the fans caused this to be scrapped and now here we are. 

[Raminphilippines]

15 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

fans are possibly the major problem at the moment. The fans are causing the apprehension and fear that has and is affecting the players.

It's been obvious for a long time that the core of this team is mentally weak, yet fans are too ignorant to notice this. It would be easy to not be ********* as fans, but our lot choose to continue to be such.

I blame the fans cos my opinion is the fans ruined the feelgood factor. Not the team, not the players, not even Newcastle United. At a time when we were coasting the league, fans were still aggressively criticising Forsyth, Keogh, Hendrick, Christie, Russell etc when real fans would be enjoying what was happening.

Back to the issue in this post. Fan reactions ruined a few promising things for me, one being Darren Wassall, and another being the Derby Way. You were there at breakfast. Whilst you may or may not have bought into MM's ideals, they were calculated and plausible. Yet the fans caused this to be scrapped and now here we are. 

I agree with much of this. I love Derby supporters they are the main reason why I kept supporting Derby, they are the reason why at the age of 14 I used to hitch hike from Norwich to the Baseball ground to watch them play. No matter where we were in the table, win or lose they sung their hearts out.

However I always have noticed how they criticise even when we are doing well, it has always been the same. All the talk of the team being a failure over the last 3 seasons baffles me, being near the top of the league is not a failure it is success even if you just miss out on going up.

There are a lot of supporters of other teams that would regard that as success. 

I will take an exciting season in the Championship just missing out on promotion rather than fighting relegation in the Premier any day. We had something good over the last 3 years, we did not fail we had a lot of success, a little bit of tweaking to stop the mistakes and we could have walked the Championship, but all this talk of the players being failures and that we need to bring in a manager to sort them out has destroyed a good team. 

[G STAR RAM]

40 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

fans are possibly the major problem at the moment. The fans are causing the apprehension and fear that has and is affecting the players.

It's been obvious for a long time that the core of this team is mentally weak, yet fans are too ignorant to notice this. It would be easy to not be ********* as fans, but our lot choose to continue to be such.

I blame the fans cos my opinion is the fans ruined the feelgood factor. Not the team, not the players, not even Newcastle United. At a time when we were coasting the league, fans were still aggressively criticising Forsyth, Keogh, Hendrick, Christie, Russell etc when real fans would be enjoying what was happening.

Back to the issue in this post. Fan reactions ruined a few promising things for me, one being Darren Wassall, and another being the Derby Way. You were there at breakfast. Whilst you may or may not have bought into MM's ideals, they were calculated and plausible. Yet the fans caused this to be scrapped and now here we are. 

Whilst there MAY be a lot of truth in the last paragraph, unless you are privvy to who was interviewed and what was discussed, then it is just speculation (which I do actually believe myself).

[Bound 2 tease]

"time for 'fans' to STOP making demands"

 

Isn't this contradictory.....coming from a fan on a very public forum ?

Perhaps Mr Morris would care to comment ?

[Woodypecker]

11 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

@Will the Ram and @Woodypecker where were you during the Clough years with your disruptive bellyaching?

@G STAR RAM don't be facetious. You are on the forum, you go to the games, you hear the 'demands'. You know about the moan in, you are fully aware of where I am coming from whether you agree or (clearly) don't. Fans never dared question so much as a formation during the GSE regime. The recruitment was lightly ridiculed.

Mostyn, I was a twenties' S/T holder protesting when Brian Clough left the club.

Typical forum-king dismissiveness from you, IMHO.

You don't know personal supporter histories or their level & longevity of commitment to club, community, heritage, and so on - so please avoid conveying yourself as the arbiter of fan worthiness or having entitlement to opinion.

Sorry - but if you don't give respect, you won't get it back.

What were you doing then, when fans activated in the regular sordid episodes in our club's history? An unfair question if you're not yet in senior S/T status - so apologies if you weren't in a position to apply disruptive bellyaching in those times.

Bellyaching is thousands of fans sitting on forums and phone-ins spouting opinions often in knee-jerk fashion; activism is getting off @arses and engaging with fans (and club, if they'll talk) and aiming to assist change or canvass real-life opinion out there away from the interweb. . 

When Maxwell was dragging the club down - pre-internet, forum, etc - I was printing and distributing 'Maxwell Out' flyers, helping to jam the Mirror Newspapers London HQ phone switchboard with protest calls, and displaying a 40 ft protest banner at the BBG on matchdays.

When the 3 Amigos consortium members led the club into corruption, I helped fan groups uncover the deceit and fraud and mobilised the Co-op bank petition. Supporters told the bank they wanted action for change. That outbreak took a couple of years until most fans twigged it, but bellyaching in public did help a tad, didn't it?

When GSE gained control, they were benign and initially ambitious after the demise of the Gadsby consortium, but they expected success and glory rather too easily and had to bunker down and get the club sorted out again.

Of course, the thread (about Pearson!), has been outdated already with the new 'scandal' erupting - a surprise to me and many others, I thought he'd see things through - but that's the nature of our weird and wonderful football club.

If it is now being mended psychologically with Pearson displaced, the players owe us a whole lot of honest work and effort to regain their own credibility.

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, Woodypecker said:

Mostyn, I was a twenties' S/T holder protesting when Brian Clough left the club.

Typical forum-king dismissiveness from you, IMHO.

You don't know personal supporter histories or their level & longevity of commitment to club, community, heritage, and so on - so please avoid conveying yourself as the arbiter of fan worthiness or having entitlement to opinion.

Sorry - but don't if you give respect, you won't get it back.

What were you doing then, when fans activated in the regular sordid episodes in our club's history? An unfair question if you're not yet in senior S/T status - so apologies if you weren't in a position to apply disruptive bellyaching in those times.

Bellyaching is thousands of fans sitting on forums and phone-ins spouting opinions often in knee-jerk fashion; activism is getting off @arses and engaging with fans (and club, if they'll talk) and aiming to assist change or canvass real-life opinion out there away from the interweb. . 

When Maxwell was dragging the club down - pre-internet, forum, etc - I was printing and distributing 'Maxwell Out' flyers, helping to jam the Mirror Newspapers London HQ phone switchboard with protest calls, and displaying a 40 ft protest banner at the BBG on matchdays.

When the 3 Amigos consortium members led the club into corruption, I helped fan groups uncover the deceit and fraud and mobilised the Co-op bank petition. Supporters told the bank they wanted action for change. That outbreak took a couple of years until most fans twigged it, but bellyaching in public did help a tad, didn't it?

When GSE gained control, they were benign and initially ambitious after the demise of the Gadsby consortium, but they expected success and glory rather too easily and had to bunker down and get the club sorted out again.

Of course, the thread (about Pearson!), has been outdated already with the new 'scandal' erupting - a surprise to me and many others, I thought he'd see things through - but that's the nature of our weird and wonderful football club.

If it is now being mended psychologically with Pearson diplaced, the players owe us a whole lot of honest work and effort to regain their own credibility.

I apologise for being dismissive and disrespectful. My point it that people are making out this club is in a distasterous state, when all that's needed is a couple of tweaks. We were worse under Nigel Clough, and I was on about that era.

[Rev]

12 minutes ago, Woodypecker said:

Mostyn, I was a twenties' S/T holder protesting when Brian Clough left the club.

Typical forum-king dismissiveness from you, IMHO.

You don't know personal supporter histories or their level & longevity of commitment to club, community, heritage, and so on - so please avoid conveying yourself as the arbiter of fan worthiness or having entitlement to opinion.

Sorry - but if you don't give respect, you won't get it back.

What were you doing then, when fans activated in the regular sordid episodes in our club's history? An unfair question if you're not yet in senior S/T status - so apologies if you weren't in a position to apply disruptive bellyaching in those times.

Bellyaching is thousands of fans sitting on forums and phone-ins spouting opinions often in knee-jerk fashion; activism is getting off @arses and engaging with fans (and club, if they'll talk) and aiming to assist change or canvass real-life opinion out there away from the interweb. . 

When Maxwell was dragging the club down - pre-internet, forum, etc - I was printing and distributing 'Maxwell Out' flyers, helping to jam the Mirror Newspapers London HQ phone switchboard with protest calls, and displaying a 40 ft protest banner at the BBG on matchdays.

When the 3 Amigos consortium members led the club into corruption, I helped fan groups uncover the deceit and fraud and mobilised the Co-op bank petition. Supporters told the bank they wanted action for change. That outbreak took a couple of years until most fans twigged it, but bellyaching in public did help a tad, didn't it?

When GSE gained control, they were benign and initially ambitious after the demise of the Gadsby consortium, but they expected success and glory rather too easily and had to bunker down and get the club sorted out again.

Of course, the thread (about Pearson!), has been outdated already with the new 'scandal' erupting - a surprise to me and many others, I thought he'd see things through - but that's the nature of our weird and wonderful football club.

If it is now being mended psychologically with Pearson displaced, the players owe us a whole lot of honest work and effort to regain their own credibility.

As a slightly younger ram, I'd guess, a heartfelt thank you for you and your kinds efforts that mean I still have a club to love.

[Guest]

Mel's approach has not changed, the Derby way is still there, it should be renamed Mel's way, but there is change to what he wants, and that's getting the club to the PL. Anybody who thinks the fans have changed his approach is living in dream cuckoo land, he hasn't got to where he is now by listening to people telling him what to do that are less qualified than him.

im not sure about demanding fans, but we certainly have our fair share of guliable ones.

[Yani P]

Personally I would say I don't believe the fans opinion counts for anything IMHO - MM is making these snap decisions - I cant believe for a second it would ever cross his mind to worry about what the fans are demanding..

[Woodypecker]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

I apologise for being dismissive and disrespectful. My point it that people are making out this club is in a distasterous state, when all that's needed is a couple of tweaks. We were worse under Nigel Clough, and I was on about that era.

But you attacked fans and asked WTF were they doing when the Brian Clough crisis erupted. Make your mind up!

It would be good to have your reply to my fair question about your own level of involvement.Unless you did nothing...

It wasn't worse under Nigel Clough - the team plodded around and the Top Ten of the table had a glass ceiling, it seemed. It wasn't exciting, but honest effort was usually apparent. We didn't have 'marquee' signings every few months!

We weren't plunged into the relegation zone so rapidly like today. This is due to the ineptitude and dereliction of the most costly and well-paid group ever of Derby players that (for whatever reason, and whatever the ruddy formation) simply opt not to do their jobs and to cheat themselves and the fans.

The carelessness and lack of application comes from those players alone, shambolic performances could be adjudged as 'protest' performances (didn't we see that kind of bemusing collapse too from some of the same players, in that 4-4 draw when Nigel had been shown the door?) The team has no backbone, no pride.

The team leadership, honesty, commitment and passion must be reinstated, and whatever has gone on at Moor Farm or The iPro, players need to confront their own responsibilities and pull the club upwards.

Fans haven't placed the club in a 'disastrous state' but some are prone to exaggeration. Forums should be read with a pinch of salt, and visited occasionally, not obsessively!

There are major conflicts and situations for DCFC to resolve amicably or legally from within the club. You learn not to hold your breath for the full facts or the whole truth.

Fans booing or barracking is a constant at most clubs in some measure (don't you listen to Chelski, Man Ure and @rse-nal fans on the national phone ins?! Hilarious!) So it is small beer compared to the problems that the club has inflicted upon itself this season.   

 

[Mostyn6]

11 minutes ago, Woodypecker said:

But you attacked fans and asked WTF were they doing when the Brian Clough crisis erupted. Make your mind up!

no I never. I never mentioned Brian Clough. I was reacting to people being all vocal about how the club is run now, and piping up about all and sundry, but during Nigel Clough's era, these people were silent.

[Woodypecker]

37 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

no I never. I never mentioned Brian Clough. I was reacting to people being all vocal about how the club is run now, and piping up about all and sundry, but during Nigel Clough's era, these people were silent.

You need then to clarify which Clough you meant.Some here have spent several more decades disruptively bellyaching.

There were plenty of moaners in Nigel's era, and it's obvious anyway that each manager will attract admirers and moaners these days, when opinions are easier to transmit, repeat.and debate.

For better or worse, people can pipe up about all and sundry, and telling them what they should do on a forum won't alter that IMHO  

 

 

 

[lee_derby]

On 9/26/2016 at 08:43, Mostyn6 said:

I think it's now the time for fans to stop making demands and make their choice. Either try and help the situation by being supportive and understanding, or stay away.

Buying a ticket doesn't entitle you to any more than seeing 90minutes football, but since Sam Rush arrived, the club has entertained this notion that it will listen to any and every fan, and in my opinion, this has caused more problems than it's resolved.

I think the club needs to be a little more closed off and professional now. The 'personal' touch has backfired and created a whim for demand and entitlement!

It was only a few years back that fans had little to no influence and say, and literally just knew where they stood, and accepted the situation as-was.

For me, the club needs to wrestle back that stance; "This is what we are doing, this is what you should expect. Please support us, no guarantees".

If I can throw one major criticism at Mel Morris, it's that he appears to have been swayed by reaction/backlash, instead of sticking to his overall conviction, which I understand may make me a hypocrite, considering I criticised him for entering the dressing room. But his overall philosophies should stand if only tweaked a little.

The problem we have now is whatever decision is or has been made can be seen as the wrong one by a section of fans.

bang on 

[alxdavids]

Quote

I think it's now the time for fans to stop making demands and make their choice. Either try and help the situation by being supportive and understanding, or stay away.

Buying a ticket doesn't entitle you to any more than seeing 90minutes football, but since Sam Rush arrived, the club has entertained this notion that it will listen to any and every fan, and in my opinion, this has caused more problems than it's resolved.

I think the club needs to be a little more closed off and professional now. The 'personal' touch has backfired and created a whim for demand and entitlement!

It was only a few years back that fans had little to no influence and say, and literally just knew where they stood, and accepted the situation as-was.

For me, the club needs to wrestle back that stance; "This is what we are doing, this is what you should expect. Please support us, no guarantees".

If I can throw one major criticism at Mel Morris, it's that he appears to have been swayed by reaction/backlash, instead of sticking to his overall conviction, which I understand may make me a hypocrite, considering I criticised him for entering the dressing room. But his overall philosophies should stand if only tweaked a little.

The problem we have now is whatever decision is or has been made can be seen as the wrong one by a section of fans.

I don't know. It seems to me like you're advocating some sort of Orwellian dystopia where we sacrifice the right to have an impact on the way our club is run in favour of handing all power to a tiny minority at the top of the club. This is already bad but it is exacerbated by the following catastrophic flaws in your argument:

1. We, the fans, do not democratically elect any part of the management hierarchy. Therefore any current decision making is effectively handed down by a dictatorial regime - the silence you are preaching is effectively asking us to forego any public criticism of the matter.
2. The season so far has been, categorically, a complete travesty; there is no other way to describe it. Simply saying to people "yeah we're a diabolical shambles this year, erm sorry" is not a valid response to people who continue to buy tickets all year and every year. Fans are emotionally invested in the club - it goes beyond results. It's friendships, it's memories, it's family. These relationships and experiences are somewhat predicated on the football that is being played and the success of the team in competitions. 
3. Following from the point previously. By allowing fans a greater say in operational matters, you systematically limit the amount of abuse that can be levelled at club leadership. A closed leadership process will only create bigger problems when troubles do arise (and, of course, they always will do - this is Derby County after all).
4. Comparing the opinions of fans against seasons where there was much less hope is not conducive to progressing as a football club. In fact I'd suggest that accepting mediocrity will only serve to develop a malaise around the club that is going to permeate to the playing squad anyway.

I can understand your frustration at a lack positive energy but I feel in the long-term greater fan involvement will lead to positive gains when form does turn around.

[Mostyn6]

47 minutes ago, alxdavids said:

I don't know. It seems to me like you're advocating some sort of Orwellian dystopia where we sacrifice the right to have an impact on the way our club is run in favour of handing all power to a tiny minority at the top of the club. This is already bad but it is exacerbated by the following catastrophic flaws in your argument:

1. We, the fans, do not democratically elect any part of the management hierarchy. Therefore any current decision making is effectively handed down by a dictatorial regime - the silence you are preaching is effectively asking us to forego any public criticism of the matter.
2. The season so far has been, categorically, a complete travesty; there is no other way to describe it. Simply saying to people "yeah we're a diabolical shambles this year, erm sorry" is not a valid response to people who continue to buy tickets all year and every year. Fans are emotionally invested in the club - it goes beyond results. It's friendships, it's memories, it's family. These relationships and experiences are somewhat predicated on the football that is being played and the success of the team in competitions. 
3. Following from the point previously. By allowing fans a greater say in operational matters, you systematically limit the amount of abuse that can be levelled at club leadership. A closed leadership process will only create bigger problems when troubles do arise (and, of course, they always will do - this is Derby County after all).
4. Comparing the opinions of fans against seasons where there was much less hope is not conducive to progressing as a football club. In fact I'd suggest that accepting mediocrity will only serve to develop a malaise around the club that is going to permeate to the playing squad anyway.

I can understand your frustration at a lack positive energy but I feel in the long-term greater fan involvement will lead to positive gains when form does turn around.

1. Our equivalent of democracy is by spending or not spending our money. I however think you may have misconstrued me, or maybe I haven't been clear. I wasn't asking for silence. I was asking for no demands.

2. If fans are emotionally tied to the club, then surely they aren't selective. For example, do they only want to be involved when the going gets good? In which case, where were the fans towards the end of NC's stint? It's all good and well saying "I'm emotionally invested", but it's not then acceptable to say "I'm not coming back until Wassall is replaced!". That's not a tie to the club.

3. It's pure folly to suggest fans have a say in operational matters. The sheer lack of business sense from the vast majority of fans, and the way emotion gets in the way of sound rationale, combined with the vast spectrum of differing opinions means it's pure lunacy to even attempt it. Fans themselves cannot agree on players, managers, tactics etc, too many voices singing different songs becomes just a noise. AS a reminder, look how many people who are slagging off Morris were there same people who threw t-shirts on the pitch v QPR and sang "where's the money gone?"?. Simply, fans on the whole are clueless, and that's myself included.

4. That's hypocrisy in my opinion, if people can say "things have gone backwards", then they are by default comparing different situations and regimes, therefore, I will too.

The only time fan involvement can lead to a positive gain is when ALL fans agree. Otherwise, it's convoluted and pointless.

[utisbug]

On 26 September 2016 at 08:43, Mostyn6 said:

I think it's now the time for fans to stop making demands and make their choice. Either try and help the situation by being supportive and understanding, or stay away.

Buying a ticket doesn't entitle you to any more than seeing 90minutes football, but since Sam Rush arrived, the club has entertained this notion that it will listen to any and every fan, and in my opinion, this has caused more problems than it's resolved.

I think the club needs to be a little more closed off and professional now. The 'personal' touch has backfired and created a whim for demand and entitlement!

It was only a few years back that fans had little to no influence and say, and literally just knew where they stood, and accepted the situation as-was.

For me, the club needs to wrestle back that stance; "This is what we are doing, this is what you should expect. Please support us, no guarantees".

If I can throw one major criticism at Mel Morris, it's that he appears to have been swayed by reaction/backlash, instead of sticking to his overall conviction, which I understand may make me a hypocrite, considering I criticised him for entering the dressing room. But his overall philosophies should stand if only tweaked a little.

The problem we have now is whatever decision is or has been made can be seen as the wrong one by a section of fans.

This is literally nonsense.

less input from the fans is what's needed? It was better a "few years ago" when they had no say and " knew their place?...surely you're joking right?

Quote possibly the biggest load of guff I've ever read on here.

Derby fans by no means are the most demanding or volatile out there. Far from it. Calling for fans to have less control for because the man at the helm may have listened too much is so far beyond the mark it is laughable. 

Truth is, the decision to appoint Nigel Pearson was the wrong one. 

There's a lot of sentiment on here talking of "getting together" and "sticking behind the team" it's just empty rhetoric. The right decisions been made. It's like the fans that through this pathetic start to the season have called for unity and some sort of blanket support for Pearson even though we disagree with what he's doing yo the team.

People need to stop talking wish wash and wise up. The man wasn't the right fit. Mel Morris has made some very serious wrong decisions and landed us where we currently sit. Calling for people to be quiet and sit on their hands is farcical.

[Old Spalding Ram]

9 minutes ago, utisbug said:

This is literally nonsense.

less input from the fans is what's needed? It was better a "few years ago" when they had no say and " knew their place?...surely you're joking right?

Quote possibly the biggest load of guff I've ever read on here.

Derby fans by no means are the most demanding or volatile out there. Far from it. Calling for fans to have less control for because the man at the helm may have listened too much is so far beyond the mark it is laughable. 

Truth is, the decision to appoint Nigel Pearson was the wrong one. 

There's a lot of sentiment on here talking of "getting together" and "sticking behind the team" it's just empty rhetoric. The right decisions been made. It's like the fans that through this pathetic start to the season have called for unity and some sort of blanket support for Pearson even though we disagree with what he's doing yo the team.

People need to stop talking wish wash and wise up. The man wasn't the right fit. Mel Morris has made some very serious wrong decisions and landed us where we currently sit. Calling for people to be quiet and sit on their hands is farcical.

 

 

Well that's my post of the day sorted!.................have a like.