What is our pattern of play?

[sage]

I appreciate their is meltdown going on, with accusations and blame flying in all directions, so I thought it was perhaps time for a little reflection and analysis. After the game NP said that players aren't doing what they are asked. He didn't say what this is. So far I have been to/watched every game apart from Preston. I have yet to gain an appreciation of how he wants Derby to play.

Can anyone deduce what he wants from them? Are we looking to press high, all over the pitch or sit back? Are we looking for a slow or fast tempo? Are we looking to build from the back or go long and look for flick ons? Are we trying to dominate possession or counter attack?

This is not a slag off Pearson thread, just trying to ascertain what we are trying to do. 

[G STAR RAM]

Play slowly along the back line and then hoof it when we get put under pressure?

[sage]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Play slowly along the back line and then hoof it when we get put under pressure?

Well that is what is often happening, but surely that isn't the plan.  

[cannable]

I don't know…

 

I don't know anymore 

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, sage said:

Well that is what is often happening, but surely that isn't the plan.  

Either the players aren't doing what they are being asked to or the manager is a clown...open to debate

[TroyDyer]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Play slowly along the back line and then hoof it when we get put under pressure?

Pretty much. 

"Keogh plays it sideways to Shackell. Shackell back to Keogh. Keogh makes a surging run towards the half way line. Checks back, plays it back to Shackell...... and that's a goal kick to Burton Albion". 

[sage]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Either the players aren't doing what they are being asked to or the manager is a clown...open to debate

Yes but what is he asking for? Surely a trace should be visible? 

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, TroyDyer said:

Pretty much. 

"Keogh plays it sideways to Shackell. Shackell back to Keogh. Keogh makes a surging run towards the half way line. Checks back, plays it back to Shackell...... and that's a goal kick to Burton Albion". 

As long as Hughes and Bryson drop in to fill the gaps it sounds like a foolproof plan to me.

[Bris Vegas]

Asked myself the same question plenty of times @sage

I just couldn't quite work it out. Under Clement it was a slow, passing game which worked the ball through midfield before relying on individual quality from our fromt three (I guess he thought Ince, Russell and Martin could replicate Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema!).

Under Wassall it was more positive, higher risks with higher pressing up the pitch. Players enjoyed it a lot more, our midfielders looked like scoring more and our wide players were terrific. Russell in particular.

Under Nigel Pearson it seems to be sit far too deep, pass the ball slowly across the back four and between midfield, before aiming a long ball uptop towards Martin with no runners close to him. 

Does Pearson want us to sit back, create space behind the opposition fullbacks and aim long balls into the channels where pacey forwards can collect and work from there? I uess this is the ideal. Percentage football.

Problem is, without pace uptop, it just keeps coming back and teams can just play a high line against us, resulting in both our wide players playing a matter of 10 yards in-front of the fullbacks and our holding midfielders almost sitting on top of our centre-backs.

I'm not expert.... Clearly.... But it looks all wrong to me!

[Animal is a Ram]

It's the Theo Robinson strategy, from Sun Tzu's Art of War.

 

If one doesn't know what one's doing, then thine enemy cannot possibly know

[G STAR RAM]

18 minutes ago, sage said:

Yes but what is he asking for? Surely a trace should be visible? 

Punt it forward and feed off scraps.

[eddie]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Punt it forward and feed off crap.

FTFY

[SaintRam]

I said in the other threads, watching the games it looks pretty clear to me that the players are supposed to playing quick, short paced passes and getting it from back to front on the floor quite quickly.

Every time we've entered this "mode" in our games so far the players suddenly start running about like they're sleeper agents who've just been triggered and we create chances.

However, throughout the whole of the games everyone's passing has been so poor that the forwards stop moving because passes to them keep being misplaced, the midfielders get frustrated at the lack of movement and start giving it back to the defenders, who eventually get fed up of the pressure and smack it long.

Midfielders are then getting frustrated with this, and dropping deeper and deeper, before realising they cannot pass/there's no-one to pass to and then themselves smacking it long.

For me, everything we're seeing is coming from a failure to do the basics for 90% of the game. I've seen spells in every game where we're suddenly doing the basics right and everyone clicks and starts moving and passing in a very systematic way.

On top of this, when we don't have the ball, players concentration seems to be very wayward, especially in the midfield area. This is probably also a symptom of the frustration from lack of progress when they have the ball.

So in summary, bunch of weak-minded players with no obvious leaders on the pitch.

 

Anyone else notice Bryson turn to Keogh with a "what the **** was that?" after a wayward pass forced him into a foul to get a yellow card? Whatever Keogh's response was made him roll his eyes and let out a frustrated laugh. That's the captain. Not seen anything from anyone else to suggest they're doing anything but hinder the mindset of everyone. Just see a bunch of shrugging arms go into the air and people pointing at what other people should be doing. 

[Alph]

I like the way when we play the ball forwards that everyone backs that pass up. 

It's a very interesting way to defend with the ball. I like it

Of course if you need to score it helps if people leave position and go PAST the ball. It's risky but hey.

Sometimes maybe even get 2 or 3 past.

Then maybe our 421-----1----------1 system won't look so rigid and dull. 

But so far it looks like we're going to stick with that and blame players effort.

I can understand why. It seems such a sound plan on paper. And I'm sticking a fiver on Forsyth to finish top scorer. I think he can hold onto it

[DesertRam]

I watched the full Villa match again on the TV, last night, and have to say, in the second half i thought

we did very well except not score - we looked the part, and you think its just a matter of time and

then well be up and running.

Fast Forward to today, and that's all gone out the window, we don't seem able to pass forward

there are no link players, and passes don't find the forwards.

Well described above by SR, I can't see this changing any time soon!!

Are Hendrick and Thorne, with Hughes higher up the pitch, the answer?

[Alph]

The thing is our players that appreciate attacking space are given roles that largely include backing up the play. Not going past the play and offering the next phase.

That was the difference v Villa. Hughes went there to join Ince. Russell and Camara then have something to work with. Martin is already there. But we still could have gone a step further with it. 

Bryson would do it. 

Butterfield is another one that backs play up.

Hence v Burton we could only pass into the DM's and then got a bit stuck. 

The play was always behind the ball. And the space between Martin and Hughes/Bryson had the whole of Burton Albion in it. 

So we started kicking it over them when they pressed.

Be alright but we'll need Crouch or Carroll 

[Alph]

I'm not saying I know how to do it before the sarcastic comments come in.

Just that that's what is happening imo

[sage]

Now we have added Vydra and seem to be adding Kodija, what does this mean in terms of formation and pattern of play. I presume he wants to play both of them and Wilson, so doe this mean 433 or a 443 diamond with Vydra in the hole or even 343 with wing backs?

I presume this will mean a counter attacking style of play. 

Any thoughts?

[SaintRam]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

Now we have added Vydra and seem to be adding Kodija, what does this mean in terms of formation and pattern of play. I presume he wants to play both of them and Wilson, so doe this mean 433 or a 443 diamond with Vydra in the hole or even 343 with wing backs?

I presume this will mean a counter attacking style of play. 

Any thoughts?

Kodjia's going to Hull. 

But we're still looking at strikers so your point still stands, just letting you know the new info. 

[LeedsCityRam]

7 minutes ago, sage said:

Now we have added Vydra and seem to be adding Kodija, what does this mean in terms of formation and pattern of play. I presume he wants to play both of them and Wilson, so doe this mean 433 or a 443 diamond with Vydra in the hole or even 343 with wing backs?

I presume this will mean a counter attacking style of play. 

Any thoughts?

Not counter attacking - I don't think we could play like that anyway given our profile in the division & the fact we'll be (and expected to be) dominating possession against most teams. Vydra & Wilson will provide a lot more movement & options in the box and their pace should mean opposition defences aren't as inclined to push up & squeeze space for Hughes & Butterfield to operate in. If they do, then we may end up going a bit more direct for a time to punish offside traps.