Jacob's (snakes and) Ladder

[angieram]

1 hour ago, jono said:

We have an interesting midfield in the forward positions .. Interesting in that it can be quite hard to pin down their strengths. Leaving out Hughsey as God incarnate and St George there are 4 players for 2 positions. 

My first impressions of Butterfield were his good technical skills on the ball. Not in Hughseys class but certainly better than the norm. He can also pass short and long and a desire to shoot on sight. Despite seeming of average build I think he displays to me a lack of physical presence and aggression, does anyone else see that ? I see the ability but there is a bit of gut busting running that seems to be missing ? 

 

I too like Butterfield 's technical ability and he is probably the most likely of our midfielders to pull off a great goal out of nowhere. 

I feel though that he always seems to play 'within himself'. I'd like to see him really going for it. I'm sure he can. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I considered putting this into the "Our next manager" thread but decided it would be lost, and I'm curious what people think of Butterfield's season of DCFC Snakes and Ladders. @HantsRamposted (p.87) of that thread got me thinking with his comment:

I think that's because the team picked itself. Wassall/Rednapp had worked themselves into a corner leaving us only three fit midfielders in Hughes, Bryson and Butterfield, so it was a no-brainer that they would play the first leg and most important game of the season against Hull. Yet Butterfield was overlooked for an unfit Johnson who had missed the previous 7 matches with a reasonably serious knee problem and must have been so far from fitness he hadn't even made the bench against Ipswich during the week before. That came right out of left field and ended up costing us big time.

Wassall's odd justification was that he had to play Johnson because he'd scored two goals against Hull (when he had been fit). Yet this completely ignored him having Butterfield at his disposal who had scored both goals against Hull in the away fixture. Why not Jacob, who despite limited opportunities since his transfer has scored 8 (mainly brilliant) goals in 30 starts which is a very respectable return? Why not Jacob, who is clearly very skillful, tidy, two-footed player - the type of skillful midfielder who might be desired for the Derby way?

It seems the high watermark of his Derby time was scoring both at Hull, where he reached the highest point on the board. Even then he was very undemonstrative on the pitch, not celebrating like a normal footballer and people on here comment that he doesn't smile. Clement's sacking was probably a very big snake for him taking him sliding down to near the bottom of the midfield hierarchy, as Wassall doesn't seem to have fancied him at all. Or is that because the other midfielders are more demonstrative and Wassall, as a very inexperienced coach, finds it easier to leave him out?

One of my friends is a Huddersfield fan and she said, "Promise me you'll look after Jacob Butterfield (and his little beard)" when he signed. I'm not sure we have. The inflated transfer fee was the fault of our recruitment department, not him. But if the coaching staff had demonstrated a little more faith in him, might he have had more chance to live up to it.

I would far rather we keep Butterfield than Johnson, who doesn't appear to have the same technical ability as the rest of the squad. I do think we need to reduce our midfield numbers, but the way to maximize revenues while keeping Hughes is probably to hope Jeff has a brilliant Euros and is snapped up for a bargain £10m as a result. And that Norwich will take Bradley back for their Championship campaign...

Where does Jacob stand with the rest of you in the snakes and ladders of the Derby midfield?

Good thread Carl.

He's been a victim in my eyes of the general confusion around what our midfield system was going to be.

When we got him I thought "hughes cover". I've posted before that in our most fluent 433 we had a midfield of a tackler,  a passer/playmaker and a runner.

So I expected Jacob to be first choice playmaker and then to vie with will on his return. 

Then bryson/hendrick would be the runners and we had George as the tackler. 

Then we spent big on Bradley and the thinking seemed to change but I'm not sure what to. I assumed originally he was like George but that was wrong.

Bradley doesn't neatly fit into my model 3 at all but clement seemed intent on "fitting him in" and that's where we lost coherence and started to struggle. I originally thought Bradley might be a Thorne alternative but if that was the intention it was woeful scouting.

Following my model through I would have expected Jacob to play as much as possible subject to fitness in wills absence. Why he wasn't is a mystery. He actually is better than will at shooting.  

I now see him as a hughes understudy as an advanced playmaker. But I cannot see how they could both fit into same 11.

I was also a bit annoyed at his rather half hearted attempt at a tackle for hull's 3rd. A bit of work to get him to put his foot in wouldn't be amiss.

 

 

[jono]

Completely agree angieram. He's got it, but sometimes it's as if there is an invisible internal rev limiter. Turn that off and we will see a good player become better.

[Dimmu]

He came in to replace Hughes, but of course you can't replace irreplaceable.

So I see him just that, back up for Hughes. Good player, I like his smile too.

[Warren Hobhead]

Technically superb, capable of scoring from ridiculous areas, ambidextrous and loves the football. He's been woefully under-used and under-appreciated this season, in my opinion. I do though see him as too nice. Too often. It's not that he can't bite (I was at Ipswich when he went crazy for a few minutes) and snarl, but he drifts out of games for me. Has the ability to really boss games at this level, like Will can, but has more in his locker for me. That's controversial on here, slights on Hughes, but it's my opinion. Butters has more to his game, he just doesn't seem that fussed at times. Whether that's the way he feels about being subbed/dropped and what not, I don't know. I get the feeling he's better than he allows himself to be. A bit too cautious at times, too much of a team player. I don't want him to become Ince, selfish and greedy. Just to look more alive, a bit of attitude. 

 

All that said, he'd be in my three if we stick to the 4-3-3. I think he's had a good first year here and deserved to play in the playoffs. But much though on his future depends on the next manager I suppose.

 

Good video by the way. 

[Derbyram1983]

On Johnson. We won't be able to sell him as he's on big money and a long contract. Cost us nearly £7m. What a waste and a waster he is. Got to go down with the earnshaw transfer for me but obviously Johnson has cost twice as much 

[RiddingsRam]

Think it was the Fulham game ....  typically boring clement game to watch not a lot happening few sideways passess across the defence trying to aimlessly work through ball into the area , but one  man in that game stood out for me not for a wonder goal or a 60 yard pass , but simply of his natural ability as a footballer , he's so calm on the ball , quick thinking and can change a game in a heart beat , regardless of what happens next season we need to find a way to utilise this man , along with will he really is one of the most naturally talented players we've had at derby in a long long time. 

I'm talking about Butterfield by the way 

[Ramshankered]

You'll get no argument from me. Despite a slow start, he's been a good signing. Blackburn at home sticks out in my head - we do nothing all game, and he crops up with a wonder strike. Boom. 3 points thank you Jacob. 

 

 

[Carl Sagan]

2 hours ago, Warren Hobhead said:

Technically superb, capable of scoring from ridiculous areas, ambidextrous and loves the football. He's been woefully under-used and under-appreciated this season, in my opinion. I do though see him as too nice. Too often. It's not that he can't bite (I was at Ipswich when he went crazy for a few minutes) and snarl, but he drifts out of games for me. Has the ability to really boss games at this level, like Will can, but has more in his locker for me. That's controversial on here, slights on Hughes, but it's my opinion. Butters has more to his game, he just doesn't seem that fussed at times. Whether that's the way he feels about being subbed/dropped and what not, I don't know. I get the feeling he's better than he allows himself to be. A bit too cautious at times, too much of a team player. I don't want him to become Ince, selfish and greedy. Just to look more alive, a bit of attitude. 

 

All that said, he'd be in my three if we stick to the 4-3-3. I think he's had a good first year here and deserved to play in the playoffs. But much though on his future depends on the next manager I suppose.

 

Good video by the way. 

Disagree on the Hughes front in that Will does things I've not really seen any other footballer do, but you're right Jake's shooting/goal-scoring is a lot better (and that counts for a lot - it's what Hughes really needs to work on to be a top, top player) and I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head that Butterfield is very much a team player and completely unselfish. And by being more selfish and taking charge and showing off his ability more, we could have a great player at the club.

Will the new manager want evolution or revolution? And which midfielders will they want too be a part of their plan? It's going to be an interesting summer.

[uttoxram75]

Butterfield is a good footballer, his only downside is that he's not as good as Will, Craig or Jeff. Few are in this league.

 

[cannable]

35 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Butterfield is a good footballer, his only downside is that he's not as good as Will, Craig or Jeff. Few are in this league.

 

Sweet George?! 

[Bris Vegas]

In Thorne, Hendrick, Hughes, Butterfield and Bryson we have a good enough set of midfielders to get out of the Championship. Wouldn't care less if we sold Johnson.

 

 

[cosmic]

I think Butterfiled had a tough time settling when he moved to us. Big money move, big changes in his life, didn't get a proper run in the team, Manager madness etc. Didn't help with Ramage unfairly critisising him every week on Radio Derby either. I hope someone shows him this thread and he sees how much we think of him and believe in his abilities. Can see him being a real asset to our promotion season with the right man in charge. Top player. 

[JaguarRam]

Keep Butters as excellent cover for Hughes. 

Ideally we should have Hughes, Bryson, Thorne and Butterfield, Hendrick and Hanson as the back ups for those positions. 

If heaven forbid we lose Will, then Butterfield is the ideal replacement. 

BJ is a good player and a solid professional. It is not his fault, but he just does not fit in our system. Ideal to keep as a bit part player if we need something different but his transfer fee means he will never be this and we will have to cut our losses on him. 

 

[DesertRam]

Always shocked when he's not in the matchday 11

[EnigmaRam]

I think it's hard to judge most of our players this season when for the first 30 games were asked to play a style that really didn't suit them. BJ and Butters were great first few games until their strengths were coached out of them. BJ in particular has took some stick but there is a quality player in there.

new manager and a clean slate

[Sexydadbod]

I feel sorry for Butterfield. Technically he is our best player after Hughes and Thorne. I said it when he came here he is like the championship santi cazorla as he is brilliant with both feet. The only downside is that he has poor stamina but I'm sure that he will work on that with a proper pre season with us. 

[uttoxram75]

10 hours ago, cannable said:

Sweet George?! 

Comparing like for like really, George is the cdm and easily the best at that role while I see the others as more attacking midfielders!

[TuffLuff]

He's fantastic technically, a tidy player overall. My big worry is he was too slow on the ball and too tempted to pass sideways and back which loses momentum. Probably because he didnt quite fit into the system consistently but he always seemed maybe 5-10 yards back from where he should be. To be honest it was the same with Johnson. Push them further up the pitch and we would see the best out of them 

[RadioactiveWaste]

9 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

He's fantastic technically, a tidy player overall. My big worry is he was too slow on the ball and too tempted to pass sideways and back which loses momentum. Probably because he didnt quite fit into the system consistently but he always seemed maybe 5-10 yards back from where he should be. To be honest it was the same with Johnson. Push them further up the pitch and we would see the best out of them 

Some might argue Clement's coaching had no small effect on that.