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Chris Martin

Lord_Ram

By Lord_Ram
in Derby County Forum

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rynny

rynny

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, top 6 finish said:

You could make a video of every player carefully selecting the best bits and make every player look good,and then wonder why we didn't finish top. Why not make a video of all his misses,and all the times he stood on his heels and didn't make any runs into the danger area,there were loads of them. I would like to see a good striker here who does what he's paid to do...score goals.Never mind flicks-on,how about taking responsibility on yourself and go for goal.

In my opinion he has been a let-down this season,not good enough.

 

54 minutes ago, Simsy said:

how did Gray do at burnley?

 

44 minutes ago, SkeggyRam said:

he was 1 of 2 players involved in more goals then Martin, cost 9 mill more mind

As @SkeggyRam says only 2 players in the league had more of a direct contribution to a teams goals than Martin. Gray (23 goals 8 assists) and McCormack (21 goals and 9 assists), Alan Judge was involved in 25 also with 14 goals and 11 assists.

Only other top Rams players, Ince 12 goals 8 assists and Russell 9 goals 8 assists.

Then you are looking at Butterfield (8 & 1) Johnson (5 & 2) Thorne (3 & 2) Hendrick (2 & 3) Bent (3 & 1) Weimann (4 & 0) Christie (1 & 3) Bryson (3 & 0)

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SaintRam

SaintRam

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, De22Ram said:

martin and bennett up top in a 4-4-2 would be an intresting experiment!

I'd put Martin up top with Zanzala before Bennett. Be far more likely to succeed in my opinion.

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CornwallRam

CornwallRam

Posted
Posted

The 'problem' with Martin is that he's only played well for us in the 433 formation and that formation hasn't got us promoted in three years. It's possible that with a little tweaking it still could, or maybe we just need a better plan b to alternate with it. Personally, I'd be looking to move away from that system, which might make Martin surplus to requirements.

When Martin has played with a strike partner he drops too deep and effectively plays as a slightly advanced central midfielder. As things stand, I can't see him in a front two, and I don't think he's mobile enough to play as the lone striker in a 4231. It is possible that his tendency to drop deep could be coached out of him though.

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rynny

rynny

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

I've never questioned his ability as an individual. I have however questioned our past and seemingly continued decision to base our entire system around the health and form of one player.

Isn't that what all teams should do though? Base their game to the strengths of their best players? You don't see Barca pumping long balls into the box and crossing from wherever for Messi. You play to your strengths. We want to play the "Derby Way" fast high pressing, 1 & 2 touch football. We need to bring in the players to do that, and if Martin/Hughes/Thorne/Bryson/Ince/Russell are having a bad game we need a player who can play that way. Teams haven't figured out how to beat us, otherwise we would hardly win a game. We beat ourselves when we don't move the ball quickly and intelligently enough. Our plan A has 2 parts to it, if part 1 isn't working (playing in triangles on the wings) you shift to part 2 (triangles through the middle) we get over crowded in one of those areas, it means that we have players over in the other.

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rynny

rynny

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, CornwallRam said:

The 'problem' with Martin is that he's only played well for us in the 433 formation and that formation hasn't got us promoted in three years. It's possible that with a little tweaking it still could, or maybe we just need a better plan b to alternate with it. Personally, I'd be looking to move away from that system, which might make Martin surplus to requirements.

When Martin has played with a strike partner he drops too deep and effectively plays as a slightly advanced central midfielder. As things stand, I can't see him in a front two, and I don't think he's mobile enough to play as the lone striker in a 4231. It is possible that his tendency to drop deep could be coached out of him though.

Shefki Kuqi did well enough in that formation.

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SaintRam

SaintRam

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, rynny said:

Isn't that what all teams should do though? Base their game to the strengths of their best players? You don't see Barca pumping long balls into the box and crossing from wherever for Messi. You play to your strengths. We want to play the "Derby Way" fast high pressing, 1 & 2 touch football. We need to bring in the players to do that, and if Martin/Hughes/Thorne/Bryson/Ince/Russell are having a bad game we need a player who can play that way. Teams haven't figured out how to beat us, otherwise we would hardly win a game. We beat ourselves when we don't move the ball quickly and intelligently enough. Our plan A has 2 parts to it, if part 1 isn't working (playing in triangles on the wings) you shift to part 2 (triangles through the middle) we get over crowded in one of those areas, it means that we have players over in the other.

Yes, their best players. Not one of the best players. 

Said in other threads, we need to be forming a system around our midfield, with players as good as or better than Martin and more depth/flexibility.

If Martin has a bad game, it doesn't really matter what anyone else does and that's the problem for me, nothing else. It isn't a case of ALL of our team playing badly, that happens rarely. But if Martin has an off day none of our play gets past their defensive line and we need another system to do so.

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rynny

rynny

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, SaintRam said:

Yes, their best players. Not one of the best players. 

Said in other threads, we need to be forming a system around our midfield, with players as good as or better than Martin and more depth/flexibility.

But isn't our current formation and style of play already the best for Forsyth, Christie, Keogh, Thorne, Hughes, Bryson, Hendrick, Russell? Butterfield, Weimann and Ince don't look too out of place either.

We have tried a midfield 2 of Hughes/Bryson/Hendick (delete as appropriate) under Nigel, We tried slightly different formations at the back end of Mac's season, the start of PC's, and we always go back to what we perform best at, 4-3-3.

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top 6 finish

top 6 finish

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, rynny said:

 

 

As @SkeggyRam says only 2 players in the league had more of a direct contribution to a teams goals than Martin. Gray (23 goals 8 assists) and McCormack (21 goals and 9 assists), Alan Judge was involved in 25 also with 14 goals and 11 assists.

Only other top Rams players, Ince 12 goals 8 assists and Russell 9 goals 8 assists.

Then you are looking at Butterfield (8 & 1) Johnson (5 & 2) Thorne (3 & 2) Hendrick (2 & 3) Bent (3 & 1) Weimann (4 & 0) Christie (1 & 3) Bryson (3 & 0)

Don't want to appear pedantic we have Davenport for that but officially Gray scored 25.

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SaintRam

SaintRam

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, rynny said:

But isn't our current formation and style of play already the best for Forsyth, Christie, Keogh, Thorne, Hughes, Bryson, Hendrick, Russell? Butterfield, Weimann and Ince don't look too out of place either.

We have tried a midfield 2 of Hughes/Bryson/Hendick (delete as appropriate) under Nigel, We tried slightly different formations at the back end of Mac's season, the start of PC's, and we always go back to what we perform best at, 4-3-3.

No, I'm not sure it is to be honest. Not that I know an alternative. 

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Casio

Casio

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, rynny said:

 

 

As @SkeggyRam says only 2 players in the league had more of a direct contribution to a teams goals than Martin. Gray (23 goals 8 assists) and McCormack (21 goals and 9 assists), Alan Judge was involved in 25 also with 14 goals and 11 assists.

Only other top Rams players, Ince 12 goals 8 assists and Russell 9 goals 8 assists.

Then you are looking at Butterfield (8 & 1) Johnson (5 & 2) Thorne (3 & 2) Hendrick (2 & 3) Bent (3 & 1) Weimann (4 & 0) Christie (1 & 3) Bryson (3 & 0)

Funny how on this forum it's Martin and Ince who appear to get a good amount of stick!

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De22Ram

De22Ram

Posted
Posted

I think he should be given a chance! The u21 players stepping into the first team need to be given time, you cant tell if theyll make it unless they get a good run of games in the first team. Look at vardy? Harry kane? 3 years ago kane was at loan at leicester 13 games 2 goals before that norwich. Now im not saying bennett is the next harry kane, but you see my point?

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