eddie Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 1 hour ago, smiths_tavrn said: Am I also right in thinking that was Brian's last game as manager? Yes. We played Leicester the week afterwards, and we had the ridiculous 'popularity contest' in the ABC Stand between Sam and Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 8 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: Came to this thread half way through (didn't initially read all the replies) but I have to take exception to this. Clough resigned, he was never sacked and George Hardy sacked Mackay. No wonder people get a bad press when misinformation like this circulates. Again, I said someone more harsh than me. I said what I thought then pointed out others would have a less positive view due to the departing managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 4 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: I was quite clearly responding to the discarding managers part. You can't deny you posted it and that what you are saying is plainly wrong. Blimey, he's explained what he meant. Even I understand it and I'm thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 6 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: I was quite clearly responding to the discarding managers part. You can't deny you posted it and that what you are saying is plainly wrong. and i was quite clearly suggesting what harsher people would say not me. The whole second paragraph is what critics would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 On 11/23/2015, 3:40:09, sage said: Happy to see the boardroom named the Sam Longson Suite or similar or maybe a cigar room behind the Director's Box. Someone more harsh could suggest his name on the litter bins as he discarded our two most successful managers. For the last time The underlined bit is my opinion The bit in italics is a joke The bit in bold is what I think critics will say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 On 23 November 2015 15:40:09, sage said: Someone more harsh could suggest his name on the litter bins as he discarded our two most successful managers. It reads as if the second bit is your opinion too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 1 hour ago, smiths_tavrn said: Hmmm, Cloughie gave the V sign to the Man Utd directors box. Ffs it could have been anyone in there. Who knows? The papers reported it as giving the eff off sign to Matt Busby, You are telling me it could be could be a surreptitious flick to Sam Longson. The plot thickens, but we will never know. Unless you have inside information. (It was after the match in the boardroom according to cloughies own account) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 4 hours ago, smiths_tavrn said: Here's some food for thought. You say both Sam and Roy didn't say enough. Don't forget that Brian Clough is held in god like status in Derby County circles. That's after he's managed both Leeds and Forest. Not a wrong word from anyone. It would be akin to blasphemy. Knowing this were Roy Mac and Sam Longson ever going to ever say anything that portrayed Brian in a bad light? Not even some minor flaw? They'd risk ostracising themselves if they did. I wasn't suggesting that they should have dished the dirt on brian. I just felt that they offered nothing new. roy said very little about the doc, colin murphy, arthur cox, the fall out with mackay. Etc etc. the best bit of his book was reading about the very early days at Tranmere. charlie george was a bit more candid, more honest. I preferred his book tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Anyway.......re Sam. Brian was a genius. He pushed the boundaries way beyond any reasonable limit. The secret of his success was also the seed of his own self-destruction. quite why the relationship went from an almost paternal one to one of open contempt is the story we all want to try to understand. I now have a lot more sympathy for Sam. I was there v Leicester too when he stood up to wave to the crowd. He knew Clough was there. He knew that the fans were responding to brian. They should have sorted it out, but as brian himself said it was a mixture of conceit and pride. A terrible shame. Despite winning the league under mackay we were damaged. We never achieved what we should have achieved. Similarly Dave Mackay - he was absolutely whorshipped as a player, but was never totally accepted as a manager. Coming back damaged his god like status because he was seen as disloyal to brian, and too quick to snatch the opportunity offered. But hey ho......its all ancient history now. looking back, i think we tend to remember the good times. I was pleased that brian showed a lot of forgiveness and accepted his own responsibility. Older and wiser, i think most people have come to understand and respect Sam's position. There's no reason for his family not to feel pride in his achievements as Chairman, or to fear the reaction of the fans. He was good for Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 6 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: And I didn't suggest that dirt dishing was the order of the day. I'd suspect there is no dirt to dish on Brian, so good luck to anyone on that one. Roy? Sounds like from what you've said that he's an inoffensive guy. Some folk are like that, They don't like to cause waves. Not a good read though. Docherty well he was a calamity at Derby but Roy pulled his punches in his book. What does that say about Roy? Not exactly fair on the readers who shelled out on it.is it? I like Roy. i'd never criticise him in a million years. The book is ok its just......i wanted to know what it felt like to be in that dressing room; what was colin todd like? what happened at bolton? Tell us about the play off final etc etc. the problem is that the ghost writers weren't there. They don't have the relevant interest or knowledge to write the book. Whereas Charlie is an honest and more candid bloke. Great player too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 7 hours ago, smiths_tavrn said: Yes people could suggest putting his name on litter bins, they really could, It's not inconceivable. They could suggest many millions of wondrous things. Riveting stuff mate. I believe there are a number of knicker untwisting products available these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 34 minutes ago, sage said: I believe there are a number of knicker untwisting products available these days. Are you back tracking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StockholmRam Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 SAMs grit and graft your way to success was always going to be at odds eventually with someone who was a maverick and I believe touched by genius in some way. Cloughie was slightly bonkers too. You can see it in small detail during interviews or in old footage. Anyone ever spotted him trying to kiss Bob Hughton Malmos manager after the European cup final... It's just a blizzare 2 or 3 seconds. He is of course trying to keep a straight face and be aloof... Many people touched by genius are difficult to work, live, get along with. They tend not to see the world as we mere mortals do. It's a real shame it all panned out the way it did but ultimately not that surprising. Only time or opportunity I have ever had to speak to anyone regarding Brian Clough was Lee Chapman. He just said he was great to work for but you could never ever read him. You could have a brilliant game, score a couple and win the match but Cloughie would be on you in a flash... " don't get big headed..there's a lad in our reserves would have scored 3 today...." Or... You could have a stinker and not be able to hit a barn door with a banjo and be fearing a right rollicking back in the dressing room but you would get warmth and sympathy " at least you were trying young man...next week you will score, don't you worry"!! Cant have been an easy ride for anyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 1 hour ago, Boycie said: Are you back tracking? The path to righteousness doesn't include a backward step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whaley bridge Ram Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 It's just a shame Brian and Sam never made up i am sure they thought about each other , not sure where Damned United got there information about Sam from but his language was not like in the film and it also said he was from Derby not quite right he was born in Chapel on a farm , not only did he take the trophy to chapel club it also went to chapel boys brigade and he also took franny lee there later in the 70s I have no photos but I no a man who might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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