Loans

[Duracell]

I disagree. 

We need our players to pass and move, creating chances, not holding the ball up and slowing the game down.

Hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on.

How can you pass and move without some lynch pin upfront to hold the ball up a bit and let players swarm around him!?

Have you seen the way we play with Martin? Or how any pass-and-move team plays? Even in a formation with a "false 9", the false 9's job is to hold the ball up.

[bcnram]

I disagree. 

We need our players to pass and move, creating chances, not holding the ball up and slowing the game down.

I suspect Mr Sage is not envisaging someone holding the ball up to slow the game down. More likely someone who can control the ball (Martin) and bring others into play, rather than the opposite. Personally, I think we should be looking at recruiting someone into the U21 set up who has potential to do that job. I am not too concerned about having a like for like player to cover that position so long as we change the way we play to suit the players selected.

[Curtains]

I disagree. 

We need our players to pass and move, creating chances, not holding the ball up and slowing the game down.

You know when Derby played with John OHare up front or Paul Goddard  who do you think played off them. 

Ill tell you Hector and Saunders respectively. 

How slow was our play then lol 

[Gary Teale]

I don't think our forward play was the issue at any stage last season and wasn't the reason we didn't go up. We lost the plot at the back making individual error after error and then constantly changing the players around.

[Stive Pesley]

Because they tried to make them go to rehab and they said no, no, no.

I'm not even going to go back and edit my typo now, I'm laughing so much! D'oh!

[Ambitious]

I can see four or five going out on loan, but none coming in. 

[StringerBell]

Didn't Mel Morris say we wanted a speedy wide player like Ibe at some point? And it was confirmed we did bid for Antonio I think. Then there's Nixon saying we went for Lennon and are interested in Pritchard who did play wide for Brentford. I'd be surprised if we didn't get someone in on loan.

[Mostyn6]

So you's drop Martin for Bent or Weimann?

Where did I say that? AS one of the very few on here who welcomed Martin and rated him, my belief is that Martin's strengths are nothing to do with hold-up play, which is a lazy term used by people incapable of highlighting his true value. His strengths, when on form, is close control, delicate touch, excellent strike (technique), and strength on the turn. When Martin is unavailable, for some reason, people seem to describe his contribution as some sort of 1-man keep-ball session on the edge of the box! To answer your question, I wouldn't drop Martin as he is the best we have got. I would've made him captain if I am honest. But in his absence, OR alongside him, I have no qualms in putting Bent, Weimann or Russell in. Obviously there would be the need to tweak the game a little, but there would be that need anyway, even if we bought/loaned a player.

Hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on.

How can you pass and move without some lynch pin upfront to hold the ball up a bit and let players swarm around him!?

Have you seen the way we play with Martin? Or how any pass-and-move team plays? Even in a formation with a "false 9", the false 9's job is to hold the ball up.

Yes, I see Spain as a pass and move team of the last 15 years, they won a tournament without a lynchpin or even a forward. There are plenty of teams that pass and move and don't have advanced players with their back to goal. I'm alarmed so many people talk as if Martin is some sort of John Carew lump up front to aim high balls at!

I suspect Mr Sage is not envisaging someone holding the ball up to slow the game down. More likely someone who can control the ball (Martin) and bring others into play, rather than the opposite. Personally, I think we should be looking at recruiting someone into the U21 set up who has potential to do that job. I am not too concerned about having a like for like player to cover that position so long as we change the way we play to suit the players selected.

If you suspect that, then I would say Mr Sage should've said that.

You know when Derby played with John OHare up front or Paul Goddard  who do you think played off them. 

Ill tell you Hector and Saunders respectively. 

How slow was our play then lol 

I don't remember John O'Hare. I wasn't alive. My recollections of Paul Goddard were of him facing goal, not back to goal.

Also, you're kind of agreeing with me by mentioning partnerships, and not lone strikers.

[RLACML]

I suspect Mr. Mostyn was being deliberately difficult, no?

[RIMBAUD]

Goddard was brilliant with his back to goal.

(and facing goal too for that matter.) 

Him and deano were brilliant together.

[Curtains]

Where did I say that? AS one of the very few on here who welcomed Martin and rated him, my belief is that Martin's strengths are nothing to do with hold-up play, which is a lazy term used by people incapable of highlighting his true value. His strengths, when on form, is close control, delicate touch, excellent strike (technique), and strength on the turn. When Martin is unavailable, for some reason, people seem to describe his contribution as some sort of 1-man keep-ball session on the edge of the box! To answer your question, I wouldn't drop Martin as he is the best we have got. I would've made him captain if I am honest. But in his absence, OR alongside him, I have no qualms in putting Bent, Weimann or Russell in. Obviously there would be the need to tweak the game a little, but there would be that need anyway, even if we bought/loaned a player.

Yes, I see Spain as a pass and move team of the last 15 years, they won a tournament without a lynchpin or even a forward. There are plenty of teams that pass and move and don't have advanced players with their back to goal. I'm alarmed so many people talk as if Martin is some sort of John Carew lump up front to aim high balls at!

If you suspect that, then I would say Mr Sage should've said that.

I don't remember John O'Hare. I wasn't alive. My recollections of Paul Goddard were of him facing goal, not back to goal.

Also, you're kind of agreeing with me by mentioning partnerships, and not lone strikers.

Partnerships are important I agee. 

Im just pointing out that hold up men like Goddard and OHare don't necessarily constitute slow play if you have very fast skillfull goal scoring players playing off them. 

Martin and that type of player are still vital. 

 

[sage]

Where did I say that? AS one of the very few on here who welcomed Martin and rated him, my belief is that Martin's strengths are nothing to do with hold-up play, which is a lazy term used by people incapable of highlighting his true value. His strengths, when on form, is close control, delicate touch, excellent strike (technique), and strength on the turn.I didn't realise I was so lazy.  Not every post has to be 5 paragraphs long. Hold up play is a well known term for a CF who controls the balls with back to goal and then links up with other players as you well know.  When Martin is unavailable, for some reason, people seem to describe his contribution as some sort of 1-man keep-ball session on the edge of the box! To answer your question, I wouldn't drop Martin as he is the best we have got. I would've made him captain if I am honest. But in his absence, OR alongside him, I have no qualms in putting Bent, Weimann or Russell in.Yes. because this worked so well last season.  Obviously there would be the need to tweak the game a little, but there would be that need anyway, even if we bought/loaned a player.

Yes, I see Spain as a pass and move team of the last 15 years, they won a tournament without a lynchpin or even a forward. There are plenty of teams that pass and move and don't have advanced players with their back to goal. I'm alarmed so many people talk as if Martin is some sort of John Carew lump up front to aim high balls at! Who mentioned headers? Hmm no-one.

If you suspect that, then I would say Mr Sage should've said that. See above, Mainly because i forgot how pedantic coan be to try and win an argument they are losing. 

I don't remember John O'Hare. I wasn't alive. My recollections of Paul Goddard were of him facing goal, not back to goal. Really? He played in a very similar way to Martin but with another striker up with him. He didn't make runs behind the defence, he either controlled it and laid it off or controlled it and turned, 

Also, you're kind of agreeing with me by mentioning partnerships, and not lone strikers.

[Mostyn6]

I suspect Mr. Mostyn was being deliberately difficult, no?

not at all. I just don't buy into the myths that constantly revolve around football. We scored plenty without Martin last season, so don't buy into the like for like nonsense, which will never end.

We still haven't replaced Kris Commons or Rob Hulse, but football evolved and will continue to do so.

I'd say anyone saying that we MUST stick rigidly to systems (that don't even succeed!) and MUST only use certain types of player, would be the ones that are being deliberately difficult, and I am the one being flexible, NO?

[LesterRam]

maybe with so many players coming in we could make another team, maybe Derby City....i'll get my coat

[Curtains]

not at all. I just don't buy into the myths that constantly revolve around football. We scored plenty without Martin last season, so don't buy into the like for like nonsense, which will never end.

We still haven't replaced Kris Commons or Rob Hulse, but football evolved and will continue to do so.

I'd say anyone saying that we MUST stick rigidly to systems (that don't even succeed!) and MUST only use certain types of player, would be the ones that are being deliberately difficult, and I am the one being flexible, NO?

Hulse and Commons now your talking .

Paul Jewell signings lol

[StringerBell]

I almost mentioned that Keis Commons was good at holding up the ball because of his first touch.

[Mostyn6]

Hulse and Commons now your talking .

Paul Jewell signings lol

my point being that there was all kinds of nonsense about having to replace those two, and we've not signed anyone even close, but survived and even got better since. It's the same regarding Will Hughes, you cannot even name a player like him, let alone find one to sign, so the other route, which is what every other team does, is evolve and adapt.

[Curtains]

my point being that there was all kinds of nonsense about having to replace those two, and we've not signed anyone even close, but survived and even got better since. It's the same regarding Will Hughes, you cannot even name a player like him, let alone find one to sign, so the other route, which is what every other team does, is evolve and adapt.

Fair enough that's a valid point. 

[TroyDyer]

the question you SHOULD be asking is, WHY did the team play as if Martin was upfront when Russell was?

Against boro forsyth was running up the wing and cutting in to get on the end of grants long balls. That was the point I knew SM had lost it. 

[RIMBAUD]

Against boro forsyth was running up the wing and cutting in to get on the end of grants long balls. That was the point I knew SM had lost it. 

Yes - and he just shrugged his shoulders and said that's where we're at...

Bonkers.

I suspect deep down he knew he was off. You don't have to take your foot off the gas much in top (ish) level sport to be nowhere near good enough.