blackNwhites Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (did a search for an old topic but couldn't find it) Yeah okay, I think Ince was worth having and that Shackell was an improvement on what we had available at the time (distribution is absolutely atrocious though). George Thorne just sort of fell into our lap by chance, total surprise to how good he turned out.However, some of them are suspect. Why sign Chris Baird, Darren Bent and Andreas Weimann when they don't fit into the philosophy of our team. Darren Bent above all was an absolute waste of a signing. He offers literally nothing. He scored goals last season when he got a run in the team but overall his inclusion coincided with a down turn in form. Chris Baird can not compliment Tom Ince on the right hand side and to top it off he's been made captain (not Chris Evan's fault). Andreas Weimann has been poor in my opinion and he cost over two Shaun Barker type fees. Darren Bent ffs, he offers nothing to the team ethic. Ryans Shotton and Cyrus Christie. Who else have I missed?We had a great formula under McClaren, why is it that 3 people have been signed that absolutely don't fit that system. Yeah, Mac's gone (understandably) but he gave us a great basis to build on. We were really unlucky last season with injuries to key personnel in key areas so I can understand why we had to change shape a bit.We've lost Hughes, I still expect that we'll get a loan in to replace him temporarily so that must be what Evans is looking to do. I' be amazed if he didn't bring someone in to cover him.Generally though, most of they signings he's okayed have been poorly thought out and just don't fit in with what was working brilliantly under McClaren. I've been trying to do a search on when Chris Evans actually joined Derby but google is not cooperating, ah, bing has.I totally forgot about Raul Albentosa. Andre Wisdom was signed before he got here, was George Thorne? If so, Tom Ince would top the list of decent signings...? I'll be honest, don't know what his role is exactly but I'd presumed he was the guy who okayed which signings we made.At first, I have been critical of Paul Clement with friends but I think most of his issues are down to the type of players Chris Evans has signed as well as the Will Hughes injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Eagle's Barmy Army Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yeah okay, I think Ince was worth having and that Shackell was an improvement on what we had available at the time (distribution is absolutely atrocious though). George Thorne just sort of fell into our lap by chance, total surprise to how good he turned out.However, some of them are suspect. Why sign Chris Baird, Darren Bent and Andreas Weimann when they don't fit into the philosophy of our team. Darren Bent above all was an absolute waste of a signing. He offers literally nothing. He scored goals last season when he got a run in the team but overall his inclusion coincided with a down turn in form. Chris Baird can not compliment Tom Ince on the right hand side and to top it off he's been made captain (not Chris Evan's fault). Andreas Weimann has been poor in my opinion and he cost over two Shaun Barker type fees. Darren Bent ffs, he offers nothing to the team ethic. Ryans Shotton and Cyrus Christie. Who else have I missed?We had a great formula under McClaren, why is it that 3 people have been signed that absolutely don't fit that system. Yeah, Mac's gone (understandably) but he gave us a great basis to build on. We were really unlucky last season with injuries to key personnel in key areas so I can understand why we had to change shape a bit.We've lost Hughes, I still expect that we'll get a loan in to replace him temporarily so that must be what Evans is looking to do. I' be amazed if he didn't bring someone in to cover him.Generally though, most of they signings he's okayed have been poorly thought out and just don't fit in with what was working brilliantly under McClaren. I've been trying to do a search on when Chris Evans actually joined Derby but google is not cooperating, ah, bing has.I totally forgot about Raul Albentosa. Andre Wisdom was signed before he got here, was George Thorne? If so, Tom Ince would top the list of decent signings...? I'll be honest, don't know what his role is exactly but I'd presumed he was the guy who okayed which signings we made.At first, I have been critical of Paul Clement with friends but I think most of his issues are down to the type of players Chris Evans has signed as well as the Will Hughes injury.Ince has not improved us at all, I much preferred Jamie Ward going down the wing or fighting back with defence. Ince is way too predictable and for that amount of money we could have brought much better. Maybe the players like Martin are thinking the same, it certainly looks that way at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 perhaps its not Evans who picks the players to sign? Perhaps he gets a list of players the manager wants. Perhaps this criticism isn't at all justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Ince has not improved us at all, I much preferred Jamie Ward going down the wing or fighting back with defence. Ince is way too predictable and for that amount of money we could have brought much better. Maybe the players like Martin are thinking the same, it certainly looks that way at times.Ince is a quality player but he seems to be trying to do it on his own. Mostly because he looks to be on his own, with no support from Baird.Jamie Ward has now become a crock, he'll spend more time on the treatment table than he'll play games. But a great work ethic before he received a hard tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Darren Bent - I assume you're probably one of the fans who also said we have no alternative plan especially last season.Get a grip man - I am as displeased with the start as other fans are but we are five games in. Get to 12-15 games and then take stock. We don't have an unlimited budget although you may think so. Bent and Baird were free transfers, paying only the wages which are probably £30k between them. Weimann is a young player with Premiership exposure. You're writing him off after 5 games. Do you remember George Thorne didn't even play for the first three odd months he was here!! Were you saying he was a waste of space at that point.Half the fans on this board need to look up the word patience in the dictionary and then show some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 perhaps its not Evans who picks the players to sign? Perhaps he gets a list of players the manager wants. Perhaps this criticism isn't at all justified.You might be right, but what does Chris Evans do? What is his title? Director of football? https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=director+of+football&rlz=1C1RNLF_enGB613GB613&oq=director+of+football&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3017j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8"Director of football" is a term describing a senior management figure at a football club, most commonly used in Europe. The exact nature of the role is often unclear and extremely variable and causes much debate in the sports media.?So who should I be directing my criticisms too? Sam Rush, the hero?Paul Clement has not made a single signing himself, he wasn't even here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Darren Bent - I assume you're probably one of the fans who also said we have no alternative plan especially last season.Get a grip man - I am as displeased with the start as other fans are but we are five games in. Get to 12-15 games and then take stock. We don't have an unlimited budget although you may think so. Bent and Baird were free transfers, paying only the wages which are probably £30k between them. Weimann is a young player with Premiership exposure. You're writing him off after 5 games. Do you remember George Thorne didn't even play for the first three odd months he was here!! Were you saying he was a waste of space at that point.Half the fans on this board need to look up the word patience in the dictionary and then show some.Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Eagle's Barmy Army Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Ince is a quality player but he seems to be trying to do it on his own. Mostly because he looks to be on his own, with no support from Baird.Jamie Ward has now become a crock, he'll spend more time on the treatment table than he'll play games. But a great work ethic before he received a hard tackle.Ince can't even beat his man and when he does his distribution has been awful. I really do hope he can turn it around but even based on last season he didn't offer a lot really.Maybe we wouldn't even be having these discussions if Hughes and Bryson stayed fit.Football, it's a funny old game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Ince can't even beat his man and when he does his distribution has been awful. I really do hope he can turn it around but even based on last season he didn't offer a lot really.Maybe we wouldn't even be having these discussions if Hughes and Bryson stayed fit.Football, it's a funny old game. Ince would benefit from having a player support him on the wing so he can have an outlet. Funny you should say he can't beat his man, looked to be running through mud yesterday. That's why I think he needs support. Just to clarify my ramblings in the OP, I'm absolutely baffled as to why whoever okays the signings we've made has completely ignored the way we play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Ince would is far better with Christie behind him, his overlap creates more space for Ince. They have nice pieces of interplay that get Ince each other in behind/in the box. I don't think Clement likes having both fullbacks bombing on though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 You might be right, but what does Chris Evans do? What is his title? Director of football? https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=director+of+football&rlz=1C1RNLF_enGB613GB613&oq=director+of+football&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3017j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8"Director of football" is a term describing a senior management figure at a football club, most commonly used in Europe. The exact nature of the role is often unclear and extremely variable and causes much debate in the sports media.?So who should I be directing my criticisms too? Sam Rush, the hero?Paul Clement has not made a single signing himself, he wasn't even here.Clement joined on 1st June Ince 4th JulyBent and Pearce 9th JuneWeimann 20th June Carson 13th JuneBaird 19th June So Clement was in position for ALL of the siginings. Which of these do you think he wouldnt have had a yes/no view on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Ince has not improved us at all, I much preferred Jamie Ward going down the wing or fighting back with defence. Ince is way too predictable and for that amount of money we could have brought much better. Maybe the players like Martin are thinking the same, it certainly looks that way at times.You would have preferred Jamie crock one trick pony Ward to Ince jeez can see if Robbie Savage is still available maybe you'd prefer him to George Thorne too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Clement joined on 1st June Ince 4th JulyBent and Pearce 9th JuneWeimann 20th June Carson 13th JuneBair 19th June So Clement was in position for ALL of the siginings. Which of these do you think he wouldnt have had a yes/no view on?I do think some of the transfer acquisition processes have been misguided, offering the same amount of money for Antonio that Forest had already rejected from a Premiership club to our fiercest local rivals total waste of a fax or telephone call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I do think some of the transfer acquisition processes have been misguided, offering the same amount of money for Antonio that Forest had already rejected from a Premiership club to our fiercest local rivals total waste of a fax or telephone call I wasnt aware the details of any bid had been made public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Clement joined on 1st June Ince 4th JulyBent and Pearce 9th JuneWeimann 20th June Carson 13th JuneBair 19th June So Clement was in position for ALL of the siginings. Which of these do you think he wouldnt have had a yes/no view on?I think most of them were already in action before he got here though, so he may have been poorly informed from the director of football.He's had to familiarise himself with the squad we already had, as well as 7 new signings including Shackell. Carson, Ince and Shackell I haven't got a problem with. The rest just don't make sense. They don't fit the squad, add onto that Shotton and Christie...and Albentosa.Yesterday my mate asked me who we would bring on next after Weimann replaced Thorne, and I said I didn't see the point because the substitutions would make us weaker rather than give us fresh options. Which it did, we were visibly weaker and no longer threatened Leeds who didn't look anything special themselves.I don't think it's fair to judge Paul Clement on the signings, so it must have to be directed at Chris Evans. Or Sam Rush, heaven forbid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I wasnt aware the details of any bid had been made public.Sorry that wasn't the point I was trying to make, when we were desperately in need of a midfielder why bother wasting precious time with tyre kicking bids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The days of picking up a overseas gem like Idiakez and Bisgaard seem long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I think most of them were already in action before he got here though, so he may have been poorly informed from the director of football.He's had to familiarise himself with the squad we already had, as well as 7 new signings including Shackell. Carson, Ince and Shackell I haven't got a problem with. The rest just don't make sense. They don't fit the squad, add onto that Shotton and Christie...and Albentosa.Yesterday my mate asked me who we would bring on next after Weimann replaced Thorne, and I said I didn't see the point because the substitutions would make us weaker rather than give us fresh options. Which it did, we were visibly weaker and no longer threatened Leeds who didn't look anything special themselves.I don't think it's fair to judge Paul Clement on the signings, so it must have to be directed at Chris Evans. Or Sam Rush, heaven forbid.Even if they were in process PC could still say wait and let me judge, and as all the siginings are at least a week after Clement joined and there was speculation of Bent going elsewhere thats probably what happened.Just because they dont make sense to you doesnt mean that they werent the choice of PC and the criticism for thier signing is due to Evans. I think you are just wanting to deflect from PC possible weaknesses and inexperience. I was vcalon my doubts of PC due to inexperience, I still hold those views but I will not call for his ehad yet because I appreciate the effect of given managers time and being stable. We have changed managers twice in two seasons and have appeared to go backwards, I dont think change is necessarily to right thing but possibly unfounded criticism for any body is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Sorry that wasn't the point I was trying to make, when we were desperately in need of a midfielder why bother wasting precious time with tyre kicking bids If it wasnt the point you were trying to make than why state it like its a act that we offered the same as an already rejected bid? no reason or that than to try an promote an unfounded opinion of incompetencemaybe because the manager has asked for him and as a DoF his job is to try and deliver what the manager asks for. Forest are in financial trouble, with a winding up order due in Spetember why not test the water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Couple of weeks ago we were putting in bids for Butterfield, Stephens & Antonio so decent moneys obviously there. Now he's saying prob loans? Have the board looked at money spent on people like Weimann (who I think would be good if not played out of position!)And decided not to let the manager risk wasting any more money till January were if things don't improve and they get rid of Clement. A new manager would then have some funds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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