Dordogne_Ram Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Allardyce turned us down as player in the late 70's, so why give him another chance? -and he's not exactly God's gift to football management from what I have seen in the interim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSC Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Take Stoke, achieve stability by 'getting the job done', now have the foundations to play good football and humbled Liverpool today. That is clearly what West Ham are praying for, by sacking Allardyce. The football can be a bit ugly to get us out of this league, that's almost what it takes much of the time. If you offered me failure next season playing half decent football, or promotion with a steely defence I'd take the latter. A dominant performance against Birmingham, which was then thrown away by defensive ineptitude and the shipping of two goal in two minutes didn't leave me with a warm glow of 'entertainment'. There is a difference between saying we need to improve defensively - which I agree with - and saying we should change our approach to hoofing it and nicking a lucky goal.Also, saying it worked for Stoke is all very well, but there's no certainty it would work with us, especially not in the short term. If we tried hoofing it with the squad we have at present we would be rubbish. Given how you see the hoofball as only a short term solution, I don't see how it would be of any use at all to adopt this approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 to say Allardyce's sides play hoofball shows a complete ignorance!If we played West Ham today, they'd have completely out-footballed us and showed us how to pass it about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSC Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I don't doubt they would, but I would say that would be due to their players being better than ours, rather than his choice of style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robglosta Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 There is a difference between saying we need to improve defensively - which I agree with - and saying we should change our approach to hoofing it and nicking a lucky goal.Also, saying it worked for Stoke is all very well, but there's no certainty it would work with us, especially not in the short term. If we tried hoofing it with the squad we have at present we would be rubbish. Given how you see the hoofball as only a short term solution, I don't see how it would be of any use at all to adopt this approach. You see, your ignorance here is that a West Ham team don't pass.. I've seen them play some cracking attacking football. What I can't tolerate is woeful defending to totally counteract our majestic attacking play. I would take defensive football to get us out of this league, then re-assess in the Premier League rather than our game of gifting a couple of goals a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouRams Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Big Sam completely changed West Hams style this season they were playing lovely football till their focal point Carroll got injured. A lot like ourselves their season collapsed without that focal point up the top. Id take him at Derby all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ram Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Big Sam completely changed West Hams style this season they were playing lovely football till their focal point Carroll got injured. A lot like ourselves their season collapsed without that focal point up the top. Id take him at Derby all day. hang on, mixed messages therewe slate maclaren for lack of having a plan B, one of our downfalls for the season, so youd take another manager who also failed to invent a succsesful plan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouRams Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 hang on, mixed messages therewe slate maclaren for lack of having a plan B, one of our downfalls for the season, so youd take another manager who also failed to invent a succsesful plan B They failed to get anyone in January I remember hearing Carlton Cole was close to joining West Brom but deals fell through so he had to stay, behind the scenes let him down not the lack of a plan b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ram Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 They failed to get anyone in January I remember hearing Carlton Cole was close to joining West Brom but deals fell through so he had to stay, behind the scenes let him down not the lack of a plan b.west hams focal point got injured, and they didn't recover from it, you cant gloss over it, a club has more than one striker, more than one 11, players aren't born and bred to specifically play one and only one type of football. There should have been several efficient ways to be able to adapt, maybe not as to play as effectively, but the collapses for either club is a failure neither mac or Sam managed to prevent, which by definition means they failed arrange an alternative way of playing, a plan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 You are all forgetting at the end of the season 13/14 all the WH fans were complaining of the style of footie they were playing under big Sam, so the board brought in Teddy Sherringham last summer to coach, low and behold WH start playing footie again. Fans happy, scoring goals and attacking the opposition, guess what the board tell Big Sam his contract won't be renewed at the end of the season, yes at 5pm tonight Big Sam was out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 You see, your ignorance here is that a West Ham team don't pass.. I've seen them play some cracking attacking football. What I can't tolerate is woeful defending to totally counteract our majestic attacking play. I would take defensive football to get us out of this league, then re-assess in the Premier League rather than our game of gifting a couple of goals a game. Coached by Teddy Sherringham this season, not SA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouRams Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 west hams focal point got injured, and they didn't recover from it, you cant gloss over it, a club has more than one striker, more than one 11, players aren't born and bred to specifically play one and only one type of football. There should have been several efficient ways to be able to adapt, maybe not as to play as effectively, but the collapses for either club is a failure neither mac or Sam managed to prevent, which by definition means they failed arrange an alternative way of playing, a plan BI agree to an extent especially with us as we were still scoring goals but there was no plan b to sure us up defensively. But I do sympathize with managers when the resources they have simply aren't good enough. West Ham are another Newcastle for me their fans expectations are way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robglosta Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Coached by Teddy Sherringham this season, not SA.Haha yeah of course, Sam is irrelevant in that regard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Haha yeah of course, Sam is irrelevant in that regard! Yep, that's why he was out at 5pm tonight........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 If we played West Ham today, they'd have completely out-footballed us and showed us how to pass it about!If we played West Ham today we would be managerless, no Ince, Bent, Lingard, Ward, Whitbread. Martin, Thorne, Eustace, Buxton out injured.Think I'd have a fiver on West Ham as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgford Ram Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Big Sam completely changed West Hams style this season they were playing lovely football till their focal point Carroll got injured. A lot like ourselves their season collapsed without that focal point up the top. Id take him at Derby all day. I believe he had them playing lovely football until Carroll regained fitness. Before then he had Valencia and Sahko up top and Downing just behind. Carroll came back and he reverted to hoof ball and bought back Nolanas well. Allardyce will go to Sunderland I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Allardyce, like Pulis, is a very smart and shrewd men. I have no doubts that Big Sam would be a good choice but he wouldn't drop into the Championship within days of losing his job at West Ham, and he sounded fairly happy about having the summer off. He will be back next season, around December time when some half-decent Premier League side is failing to reach their expectation. I don't buy that Clement is 'untested' either; he has been doing a different role for a long time but to brand him untested would suggest that he's fallen out of an established playing career and used his reputation to get a prestigious job at Real Madrid. He has been, or would have been, scrutinised by some of the games biggest managers. All, or at least some, of them have heard him talk about the game and liked his ideas enough to keep him close by for an idea or two when they need it. Clement is a strong candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McMinn Football Genius Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Allardyce, like Pulis, is a very smart and shrewd men. I have no doubts that Big Sam would be a good choice but he wouldn't drop into the Championship within days of losing his job at West Ham, and he sounded fairly happy about having the summer off. He will be back next season, around December time when some half-decent Premier League side is failing to reach their expectation. I don't buy that Clement is 'untested' either; he has been doing a different role for a long time but to brand him untested would suggest that he's fallen out of an established playing career and used his reputation to get a prestigious job at Real Madrid. He has been, or would have been, scrutinised by some of the games biggest managers. All, or at least some, of them have heard him talk about the game and liked his ideas enough to keep him close by for an idea or two when they need it. Clement is a strong candidate. I'm not having a pop but where has Mr. Clement managed before he is appointed here? I don't know of him managing anywhere, hence "Untested" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Allardyce, like Pulis, is a very smart and shrewd men. I have no doubts that Big Sam would be a good choice but he wouldn't drop into the Championship within days of losing his job at West Ham, and he sounded fairly happy about having the summer off. He will be back next season, around December time when some half-decent Premier League side is failing to reach their expectation. I don't buy that Clement is 'untested' either; he has been doing a different role for a long time but to brand him untested would suggest that he's fallen out of an established playing career and used his reputation to get a prestigious job at Real Madrid. He has been, or would have been, scrutinised by some of the games biggest managers. All, or at least some, of them have heard him talk about the game and liked his ideas enough to keep him close by for an idea or two when they need it. Clement is a strong candidate. If Derby fans want a virtual guarantee of establishing themselves as a mid-table Premiership club then we should ask Allardyce to join the club. It seems the club are willing to gamble the future on an untested manager and that is what Clement is. Am not sure you understand the word 'untested'. Clement hasn't managed/Head Coached before and it is a completely different job description to the one he has at Real Madrid. He has never been tested at the Head Coach level and he might well be a complete flop. Then we are stuck with an 8M wage bill (alleged) for the next four years likely plunging the club back into the financial dark days a few years ago. I agree with you that Clement is a strong candidate but he's also a more risky one than many others. He would be stepping into the unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLACML Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Honestly, the only reason I'm not absolutely gutted at McClaren leaving is because Clement is the replacement. I think he's a perfect fit.If it were Warburton or Allardyce, I'd be asking serious questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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