Derby Must Avoid a "draconian" Review

[Day]

The spud from Stoke needs to go

​Not sure what @uttoxram75 has done wrong 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Totally agree. A fully fit Bryson would be in my team.

[Mostyn6]

Two things cost us this year

Firstly our injuries and coming all at the same time?

And secondly very poor defending

A complete shake up of the defence is needed.

The spud from Stoke needs to go, out of his depth at this level

Christie cannot defend and again out of his depth at this level

Bucko, far too slow.

Someone mentioned the defenders don't need to be able to pass a ball -  Yes they do, we are not a long ball 'hoof it up' type of team  - we need CD's that can make short accurate passes to the midfield players.

We do like to play from the back and using attacking full/wing backs in attack, those players need to be able to pass a ball in able them to a cross a ball accurately.

We do need a replacement for Eustace, if he's injuryed we need a like for like in that position.

GT is a bonus if we can get him fit [we did very well most of the season without him, well upto end of Feb anyway]

As for CM, Yes certainly up front when fit, what we don't want next season is a rerun of the last 13 games of this season, so we need a back up, Bent?, I wish!

As for Ince I would make him the no1 prioity for signing for next season.

Play him opposite Russell up front and if we have CM fit in the middle, goals, goals and more goals.....

 

​totally wrong. A defender who wins the ball, preventing a goal and then hoofs it upfield or into the stand is better than a defender who tries to dribble his way out and then play a worldie pass, getting either dispossessed or his pass being intercepted, whilst out of position, leading to a goal.

Some people need a reality check, Centre backs with a 100% (Hoddle-esque) passing accuracy do NOT sausaging exist at this level, they do not exist at the bottom of the Premier League FFS. We don't have one and never have had. We have player that try, and they cause more harm than good! What we do need is no-nonsense defenders who do their job and let the midfield do the creating.

If you're one of those who'd rather have David Luiz in your side over John Terry, then sadly, you're an idiot. We need the nearest we can get to John Terry, not the nearest we can get to David Luiz. 

 

[RLACML]

​totally wrong. A defender who wins the ball, preventing a goal and then hoofs it upfield or into the stand is better than a defender who tries to dribble his way out and then play a worldie pass, getting either dispossessed or his pass being intercepted, whilst out of position, leading to a goal.

Some people need a reality check, Centre backs with a 100% (Hoddle-esque) passing accuracy do NOT sausaging exist at this level, they do not exist at the bottom of the Premier League FFS. We don't have one and never have had. We have player that try, and they cause more harm than good! What we do need is no-nonsense defenders who do their job and let the midfield do the creating.

If you're one of those who'd rather have David Luiz in your side over John Terry, then sadly, you're an idiot. We need the nearest we can get to John Terry, not the nearest we can get to David Luiz. 

Your example doesn't quite work. There's not only two types of defenders - one who is very solidly defensively but technically rubbish, and one who is technically brilliant, but very dodgy defensively​. You don't have to sacrifice passing ability to be a solid defender. People aren't asking for 'Hoddle-esque' passing ability but they expect better than the hoof ball we played at the end of the season. 

[ramsbottom]

​Hi Guys, I am a die hard rams fan and I have been a season ticket holder for 21 years now (not bad for saying I am only 27 :-)......) and I have been reading this forum for years (love it), but this is my first post so take it easy ;-).........!

Well to start with im going to address the issues with missing personnel in the team this season, like Thorne, Buxton, Martin and Eustace and the impact that had on the team (which was obvious).....How ever its shocking to see that the dismissal of BRYSON is so easy....... The back end of the season saw us lack a controlling midfielder who would harass and get stuck into the opposition, Que Bryson!  Not even mentioning the goals that come with his game!

Our player of the season (twice!!!) who IMO was the missing piece in the play-off final, would have made such a difference this season given a decent run in the team. Of course, injuries and squad form have alot to answer for in terms of Brysons pitch time but it shocks me that so many people are willing to just write him off and get him out of the club!

Surely he must stay and command a first team place?

That doesn't sound like the Bryson I've watched.  The Bryson I watch is so far away from a player who controls and midfield as it gets.  As for getting stuck in...  Well he runs around a lot but I've never seen him pick up the second balls or loose passes from the oppostition like Thorne/Eustace do.  Take his goalscoring out of the equation (also bear in mind that last season was an anomoly and the first him he reached double figures for a season) and he's not half the player a lot of people think he is.

If he wasn't on such high wages I'd say keep him as back up to Hughes & Hendrick but at the moment we could get a lot better for the wages we're paying him.

[YouRams]

​totally wrong. A defender who wins the ball, preventing a goal and then hoofs it upfield or into the stand is better than a defender who tries to dribble his way out and then play a worldie pass, getting either dispossessed or his pass being intercepted, whilst out of position, leading to a goal.

Some people need a reality check, Centre backs with a 100% (Hoddle-esque) passing accuracy do NOT sausaging exist at this level, they do not exist at the bottom of the Premier League FFS. We don't have one and never have had. We have player that try, and they cause more harm than good! What we do need is no-nonsense defenders who do their job and let the midfield do the creating.

If you're one of those who'd rather have David Luiz in your side over John Terry, then sadly, you're an idiot. We need the nearest we can get to John Terry, not the nearest we can get to David Luiz. 

 

​I share the same frustrations, we needed 3 points from our final 3 games for playoffs, conceded 10 goals and people still wont let a bad word be said about certain players. If that doesn't highlight the need for change and quality DEFENDERS I don't know what will.

[tommoram]

That doesn't sound like the Bryson I've watched.  The Bryson I watch is so far away from a player who controls and midfield as it gets.  As for getting stuck in...  Well he runs around a lot but I've never seen him pick up the second balls or loose passes from the oppostition like Thorne/Eustace do.  Take his goalscoring out of the equation (also bear in mind that last season was an anomoly and the first him he reached double figures for a season) and he's not half the player a lot of people think he is.

If he wasn't on such high wages I'd say keep him as back up to Hughes & Hendrick but at the moment we could get a lot better for the wages we're paying him.

​Well considering he has been player of the season twice as voted for by the fans then you must be missing out on what the majority of people are seeing in him.

Yes he has had a mediocre season this time around but he hasn't really had a decent run in the team due to injuries and the good first 2/3 of the season where Mcclaren couldnt really change a winning team, so there was no chance for his return...... but when you consider his 17 appearances to his 45 last season, there's the difference!

His work ethic is second to none and he runs around and might not intercept passes directly but he puts the opposition under pressure forcing them to make mistakes or rush their passes which is where your Thorne or Eustace come in........A midfielders role isnt all about intercepting passes or lose balls, and besides that isnt our philosophy, we play the ball out from the back utilising the likes of Bryson, Hughes and Hendrick to open up the game and create chances...............Thats why he flourished last year due to the new system..... Its not the same Derby as it was under Cloughie and that's where the roles differ which reflect in the goal conversion rate!

Back up?......Seriously? Each to there own though I suppose.

[May Contain Nuts]

We do need our defenders to have some passing ability, but we also need them to realise when it's a safe time to pass it out and when it would be wiser getting rid, or turn back towards their own goal (to the jeers of the crowd)

It's similar to how Mascarell wasn't as effective as a defensive midfilder as Eustace/Thorne - his stats may not actually have been bad but what they could never cover was the lack of knowledge of when to go forward and when to stay back.

That was key to a lot of our issues towards the end of last season, players making stupid decisions and trying to make passes that weren't on, blindly making passes without looking (Forsyth is a big culprit for this, that'll never change) coupled with lacking a player in the middle who was comfortable to or wanted to take the ball off the defence in tight areas - and often when they did (Hendrick, Mascarell at Fulham in the cup) they ended up losing the ball.

There is a time and a place to play it long, a long pass isn't automatically 'hoofball' -  much of Buxton's best passing in 2013/14 came from his long balls out of defence to Forsyth marauding on the left, who'd chest it down and attack their full back - we've missed them, we seemed to be trying to replicate it for much of last season with Grant's awful kicks out wide to a stationary Forsyth, which usually went above his head and would have been no use anyway because he'd only be bringing them down and cutting inside / passing it backwards!

 

[ramsbottom]

​Well considering he has been player of the season twice as voted for by the fans then you must be missing out on what the majority of people are seeing in him.

Yes he has had a mediocre season this time around but he hasn't really had a decent run in the team due to injuries and the good first 2/3 of the season where Mcclaren couldnt really change a winning team, so there was no chance for his return...... but when you consider his 17 appearances to his 45 last season, there's the difference!

His work ethic is second to none and he runs around and might not intercept passes directly but he puts the opposition under pressure forcing them to make mistakes or rush their passes which is where your Thorne or Eustace come in........A midfielders role isnt all about intercepting passes or lose balls, and besides that isnt our philosophy, we play the ball out from the back utilising the likes of Bryson, Hughes and Hendrick to open up the game and create chances...............Thats why he flourished last year due to the new system..... Its not the same Derby as it was under Cloughie and that's where the roles differ which reflect in the goal conversion rate!

Back up?......Seriously? Each to there own though I suppose.

The first season he was here, the whole team/season was mediocre so it wasn't exactly hard.  Best of an underwhelming bunch.  As for last season Martin should've won it but it was some achievement scoring 15 from midfield.

That's just it, all he really does is run alot.  He's not physical like Hendrick, he can't retain possession or pick a pass like Hughes and he doesn't break up play like Thorne/Eustace.  Take his goal scoring out of the equation and he doesn't offer you much else.

Like you said, each to their own.  In my opinion he's behind Hendrick & Hughes in the pecking order...

[sage]

firstly, we need to break away from the myths.

1. We don't need our centrebacks to be accomplished footballers. Their job is to protect the goal. Clear the ball or give it to someone who is accomplished. SIMPLE.

2. We shouldn't judge our fullbacks primarily by their attacking prowess! Their priority is to protect the goal. If they can dribble, shoot and cross, it's a bonus.

3. We do NOT need a defensive midfielder if we have a proper defence.

4. We do NOT need a like for like backup for Chris Martin. We need an able alternative, and we do need to play in a way to maximise the abilities of whichever player we use.

5. Ince and Bent did NOT ruin our style of play and make it ineffective. The style of play was changed, and confidence affected performances.

6. Shackell was not a brilliant player for Derby and his return will not solve anything, likewise Wisdom.

​Mainly tripe, with one good point.

[tommoram]

 

The first season he was here, the whole team/season was mediocre so it wasn't exactly hard.  Best of an underwhelming bunch.  As for last season Martin should've won it but it was some achievement scoring 15 from midfield.

That's just it, all he really does is run alot.  He's not physical like Hendrick, he can't retain possession or pick a pass like Hughes and he doesn't break up play like Thorne/Eustace.  Take his goal scoring out of the equation and he doesn't offer you much else.

Like you said, each to their own.  In my opinion he's behind Hendrick & Hughes in the pecking order...

​Each to there own indeed!

And arguably Martin should have won it last year but in my personal opinion it went to the right guy....However I do think Martin deserved it this year over Hughes, yet I believe Hughes had his best season for us this time around just lacks goals.

Bryson and Hughes for me with Hendrick as back up........ Cant see the logic behind saying Bryson brings nothing to the team when he doesn't score :-/.....

[DEL]

I rather have Hughes and Hendrick together and someone like Barton as back up though. 

[Ramarena]

There is a post on Derby Mad that mentions the following as targets. 

Anders Lindegaard, Gordon Greer, Andre Wisdom, Joey Barton, Tom Ince, Ivan Santini and Darren Bent.
 

[inter politics]

Interesting list but the guy is a first time poster so we'll see - these kind of 'lists' kinda came out with Nigel before but less so nowadays so my natural instinct is to disbelieve. I see a regular poster has stated that the 'club is confident on Ince' though.

Greer is abit old isn't he? Does he play on the left hand side of the CBs?!

That Ivan Santini sounds like a classic Football Manager name.

[Rev]

Not saying Gordon Greer's too old, but 1st time he came to Derby he got no further than Swarkestone Bridge.

[Ramarena]

Interesting list but the guy is a first time poster so we'll see - these kind of 'lists' kinda came out with Nigel before but less so nowadays so my natural instinct is to disbelieve. I see a regular poster has stated that the 'club is confident on Ince' though.

Greer is abit old isn't he? Does he play on the left hand side of the CBs?!

That Ivan Santini sounds like a classic Football Manager name.

​Yeah I have no clue. I saw it and thought it was interesting so posted, could be a total crock of ****. Yeah Santini for 200k and he bags 25 goals, true FM territory. 

[cloughandtaylor]

​totally wrong. A defender who wins the ball, preventing a goal and then hoofs it upfield or into the stand is better than a defender who tries to dribble his way out and then play a worldie pass, getting either dispossessed or his pass being intercepted, whilst out of position, leading to a goal.

Some people need a reality check, Centre backs with a 100% (Hoddle-esque) passing accuracy do NOT sausaging exist at this level, they do not exist at the bottom of the Premier League FFS. We don't have one and never have had.  

 

​You don't need to play worldie passes just being able to pass the ball and read the game that is what is required.

So Stimac and Mark Wright were never great passes of the ball ?

Both defenders, both played in second division, both could read the game and both could pass a ball, both play for us.....Yes they do exist at this level and yes, we have had them in the past!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give your a head a shake!

 

 

 

[Leicester Ram]

2. We shouldn't judge our fullbacks primarily by their attacking prowess! Their priority is to protect the goal. If they can dribble, shoot and cross, it's a bonus.

6. Shackell was not a brilliant player for Derby and his return will not solve anything, likewise Wisdom.

You're right, the player who fits your criteria for a full-back, has a positive pre-existing relationship with the manager, squad, club and fans, and is realistically available this summer 'will not solve anything'.

You're so bloody right, mate.

[Mostyn6]

​You don't need to play worldie passes just being able to pass the ball and read the game that is what is required.

So Stimac and Mark Wright were never great passes of the ball ?

Both defenders, both played in second division, both could read the game and both could pass a ball, both play for us.....Yes they do exist at this level and yes, we have had them in the past!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give your a head a shake!

 

 

 

​You list two players, one signed over 25 years ago, the other 20 years ago to argue that something exists currently? Yet I need a head shake? Wowsers lol. OK, I'll humour you if you can name ONE player with the quality of Igor or Mark Wright that has played at Championship level in the last 10 years! You won't even come close! But good luck.

[Mostyn6]

You're right, the player who fits your criteria for a full-back, has a positive pre-existing relationship with the manager, squad, club and fans, and is realistically available this summer 'will not solve anything'.

You're so bloody right, mate.

​how do you know he is available? 

Also, are you forgetting Wisdom's massive drop in form post New year last season? It's easy to make someone a better player when they're gone. You'll be telling me Savage was brilliant next!