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Derby Must Avoid a "draconian" Review


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Those aren't myths, those are just opinions that differ from your own 

​no, they are myths. We have been successful, and other teams have been successful with and without those things, therefore, there 'essential' status for success, is a myth.

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firstly, we need to break away from the myths.

1. We don't need our centrebacks to be accomplished footballers. Their job is to protect the goal. Clear the ball or give it to someone who is accomplished. SIMPLE. Wrong. It is essential our centrebacks can carry the ball forward in order to create space for midfield when pressed high up.

2. We shouldn't judge our fullbacks primarily by their attacking prowess! Their priority is to protect the goal. If they can dribble, shoot and cross, it's a bonus. Wrong. Our "style" depends on fullbacks getting forward on the overlap. Didn't happen end of season.

3. We do NOT need a defensive midfielder if we have a proper defence. Wrong. We do if we are playing our "style"

4. We do NOT need a like for like backup for Chris Martin. We need an able alternative, and we do need to play in a way to maximise the abilities of whichever player we use. Agreed.

5. Ince and Bent did NOT ruin our style of play and make it ineffective. The style of play was changed, and confidence affected performances. Fullbacks stopped overlapping. not sure if to instruction or not.

6. Shackell was not a brilliant player for Derby and his return will not solve anything, likewise Wisdom. Agree Shackell disagree Wisdom.

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firstly, we need to break away from the myths.

1. We don't need our centrebacks to be accomplished footballers. Their job is to protect the goal. Clear the ball or give it to someone who is accomplished. SIMPLE.

2. We shouldn't judge our fullbacks primarily by their attacking prowess! Their priority is to protect the goal. If they can dribble, shoot and cross, it's a bonus.

3. We do NOT need a defensive midfielder if we have a proper defence.

4. We do NOT need a like for like backup for Chris Martin. We need an able alternative, and we do need to play in a way to maximise the abilities of whichever player we use.

5. Ince and Bent did NOT ruin our style of play and make it ineffective. The style of play was changed, and confidence affected performances.

6. Shackell was not a brilliant player for Derby and his return will not solve anything, likewise Wisdom.

​1, 2, 5 I agree with.

3 - I don't think Schteve will change the system.  Therefore with the fullbacks being pushed on we'll need someone to cover and not allow a free run at our CBs.

4 - See No 3

6 - Shackell was very good, as was Wisdom.  I'd say one of our biggest misses this year was Wisdom's ability ot not go walkabouts and keep the shape.

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firstly, we need to break away from the myths.

1. We don't need our centrebacks to be accomplished footballers. Their job is to protect the goal. Clear the ball or give it to someone who is accomplished. SIMPLE.

2. We shouldn't judge our fullbacks primarily by their attacking prowess! Their priority is to protect the goal. If they can dribble, shoot and cross, it's a bonus.

3. We do NOT need a defensive midfielder if we have a proper defence.

4. We do NOT need a like for like backup for Chris Martin. We need an able alternative, and we do need to play in a way to maximise the abilities of whichever player we use.

5. Ince and Bent did NOT ruin our style of play and make it ineffective. The style of play was changed, and confidence affected performances.

6. Shackell was not a brilliant player for Derby and his return will not solve anything, likewise Wisdom.

​Sorry, but I can't agree with you...

1) Our Centre Backs are integral to our attacking play in that they need to be able to pass and often exploit space in midfield by bringing the ball forward.

2) We rely on overlapping full backs to stretch opponents, so being able to dribble shoot and cross is not a bonus.  In my opinion this is what marks Shotton out as a centre back, his crossing ability isn't a bonus when he plays right back.

3) Even if you don't need a CDM you'll still need a midfielder who can tackle, read the game, and retrieve the ball, whatever you call him.

4) I'd agree where we need to change games, not so sure if Martin is out injured long term.  It prevents us from replicating a successful style for a potentially long period.

5) Agreed

6) I wouldn't have Shackell back, but Wisdoms pace, composure and stature enabled us to play a shuffled back three while attacking where Forsyth was released into midfield and beyond.  I'm not aware of too many other RB's that would give us that option. However the current theme of people completely giving up on Christie seems an over-reaction to me - he's a young player and generally they'll all drop in form.  For instance should Villa have given up on Benteke when he couldn't buy a goal for six months?

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WoW! People believe anything.

Why people want to stick with things that are clearly failing is beyond me.

Well, each to their own I suppose. I just struggle to think of the times when all those positive things people have listed have benefitted us!

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firstly, we need to break away from the myths.

1. We don't need our centrebacks to be accomplished footballers. Their job is to protect the goal. Clear the ball or give it to someone who is accomplished. SIMPLE.

2. We shouldn't judge our fullbacks primarily by their attacking prowess! Their priority is to protect the goal. If they can dribble, shoot and cross, it's a bonus.

3. We do NOT need a defensive midfielder if we have a proper defence.

4. We do NOT need a like for like backup for Chris Martin. We need an able alternative, and we do need to play in a way to maximise the abilities of whichever player we use.

5. Ince and Bent did NOT ruin our style of play and make it ineffective. The style of play was changed, and confidence affected performances.

6. Shackell was not a brilliant player for Derby and his return will not solve anything, likewise Wisdom.

​1. Agree for the most part - it is a luxury to have a ball playing defender. I think with the right players around him Keogh or Buxton have the ball playing ability to allow us to play from the back. Just need some big ugly bruiser that'll win everything in the air stood next to them (I'd hoped this would be Albentosa)

2. Agree again but the outlet Forsyth provided in our journey to the play offs last season was vital, that worked because we had Wisdom who could defend brilliantly but got a nose bleed beyond the half way line. < this point contradicts the end of your point 6 I feel because Wisdom returning would tighten our defence up I'm sure of it. Agree Shackell was a decent player in a below average side. 

3. Possibly disagree here but not due to our defence, due to our midfielders having no discipline. We need someone to help the defence, especially if Forsyth returns to his marauding ways down the left. 

4. Agree - A like for like substitute for Martin would be great but we need a second/third dimension to our play. Bent could provide this but I felt like we didn't adjust our style to match his (ie playing on the shoulder of the last defender rather than coming to collect the ball/hold it up).

5. Bent and Ince both contributed a lot more than most whilst they were here. Our system should have changed to accommodate Bent but I can't think of a negative about Ince. He was always bombing back to help out the defence (with time he'll know when its okay to try and play it out of defence or when he just needs to lump it long so we don't half Birmingham at home happening regularly) and he was incredible going forwards. 

6. See my point 2. 

 

Now for my thoughts: With a solid RB and Buxton fit again our defence looks strong enough for me. If however Buxton isn't going to be fit we need someone who will throw themselves at everything and do the ugly stuff well. I hoped Shotton would be in the Wisdom mould but this hasn't appeared to happen. This should allow Forsyth to get back to his best (when he is whipping those early balls into the box). This is hoping that Grant actually bothers to keep his eyes open when he goes to catch corners and free kicks because he's a good keeper, he just isn't showing it lately. 

We need a disciplined midfielder - somebody who doesn't forget that they're there to break up attacks and then begin our own attacks. No defence can deal with other teams just running at them with no midfield support. 

We need Ince, he's guaranteed goals and wins in this division. Did it for us and a poor Blackpool side. Ideally I'd like another winger too giving us Russell, Ince, Dawkins, New Winger. I prefer Dawkins in the centre of the pitch and if we were to be playing Eustace I'd quite like Dawkins and Hughes to be our centre pairing ahead of him. 

Obviously we need another option upfront, I'd like Bent but if Leicester stay up, looking likely, I'd enquire about the availability of Chris Wood. I think all strikers will score goals in a team like ours when we play how we know we can. 

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firstly, we need to break away from the myths.

1. We don't need our centrebacks to be accomplished footballers. Their job is to protect the goal. Clear the ball or give it to someone who is accomplished. SIMPLE.

With the way we play I'd like them to be comfortable in possession and able to pass (along the floor) to someone in our own team, they are pretty rare and if we find one sign them up on a long term contract with no get out clauses.

2. We shouldn't judge our fullbacks primarily by their attacking prowess! Their priority is to protect the goal. If they can dribble, shoot and cross, it's a bonus.

Modern fullbacks now days need to get forward and be comfortable in my opinion, a full back that never ventures across the half way line and likes to take a man on doesn't do it for me. 

3. We do NOT need a defensive midfielder if we have a proper defence.

Agree/Disagree, at Wolves we looked pretty decent in the first half but I'd like us to have that option in our armoury for other games. McClaren has been accused of having no Plan B, we need one and I don't think we can rely on Thorne until he proves his fitness.

4. We do NOT need a like for like backup for Chris Martin. We need an able alternative, and we do need to play in a way to maximise the abilities of whichever player we use.

Agreed again, when I hear people say Bent doesn't fit into our system then moan we have no Plan B. Plan B should be Plan Bent, he's a goalscorer, sign him up.

5. Ince and Bent did NOT ruin our style of play and make it ineffective. The style of play was changed, and confidence affected performances.

Agreed again, 'kin ell Mostyn stop it, you're on the verge of getting a like here

6. Shackell was not a brilliant player for Derby and his return will not solve anything, likewise Wisdom.

​I'm off, someones hacked Mostyn's account, this blokes talking sense

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Fair enough, just opinion but -

Keogh - Not captain material.  No composure.  But people like him because he makes last minute blocks/tackles.  People tend to miss the fact that decent positioning/marking would prevent the block/tackle having to be made in the first place.  Buxton, and (providing he plays next to someone who isn't a headless chicken) Albentosa are better options

Shotton - Doesn't look to be good enough at RB or CB.  Pace is an asset though

Bryson - Has done one single thing of note (Watford winner) all season and more than likely the highest earner at the club.  He's dead weight and I'd like to see his wages go towards another Ince loan or an experienced centre mid who can pass more than 10 yards sideways.

Warnock - Worse than Forsyth and again a drain on wages.

Sammon - Errrr...

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Keep the style, get back to decimating teams and perhaps being a bit careless at the back. Outscore teams. We only started conceding stupid goals because the defenders got worried about conceding stupid goals. The only way to end that vicious circle is to take all the pressure off and let the defenders do whatever. We have to be a more liberated and creatively free team all over the park but that's all. 

When did you get your UEFA Category A coaching badges? The only thing that must be holding you back from being a sought after manager/coach is the colour of your skin.

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When did you get your UEFA Category A coaching badges? The only thing that must be holding you back from being a sought after manager/coach is the colour of your skin.

​Silly - it's not a UEFA Category A badge.

It's a FIFA 15 medal as big as a frying pan.

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When did you get your UEFA Category A coaching badges? The only thing that must be holding you back from being a sought after manager/coach is the colour of your skin.

​What do you think I've been studying? You didn't buy that "History Degree" gag did you?  Cor, fancy falling for that....

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I hope they take a good look at this thread as part of their review. It would be silly not to take into account the pearls of wisdom on display here.

​Just don't buy a Sat Nav from him

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Two things cost us this year

Firstly our injuries and coming all at the same time?

And secondly very poor defending

A complete shake up of the defence is needed.

The spud from Stoke needs to go, out of his depth at this level

Christie cannot defend and again out of his depth at this level

Bucko, far too slow.

Someone mentioned the defenders don't need to be able to pass a ball -  Yes they do, we are not a long ball 'hoof it up' type of team  - we need CD's that can make short accurate passes to the midfield players.

We do like to play from the back and using attacking full/wing backs in attack, those players need to be able to pass a ball in able them to a cross a ball accurately.

We do need a replacement for Eustace, if he's injuryed we need a like for like in that position.

GT is a bonus if we can get him fit [we did very well most of the season without him, well upto end of Feb anyway]

As for CM, Yes certainly up front when fit, what we don't want next season is a rerun of the last 13 games of this season, so we need a back up, Bent?, I wish!

As for Ince I would make him the no1 prioity for signing for next season.

Play him opposite Russell up front and if we have CM fit in the middle, goals, goals and more goals.....

 

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Fair enough, just opinion but -

Keogh - Not captain material.  No composure.  But people like him because he makes last minute blocks/tackles.  People tend to miss the fact that decent positioning/marking would prevent the block/tackle having to be made in the first place.  Buxton, and (providing he plays next to someone who isn't a headless chicken) Albentosa are better options

Shotton - Doesn't look to be good enough at RB or CB.  Pace is an asset though

Bryson - Has done one single thing of note (Watford winner) all season and more than likely the highest earner at the club.  He's dead weight and I'd like to see his wages go towards another Ince loan or an experienced centre mid who can pass more than 10 yards sideways.

Warnock - Worse than Forsyth and again a drain on wages.

Sammon - Errrr...

​Hi Guys, I am a die hard rams fan and I have been a season ticket holder for 21 years now (not bad for saying I am only 27 :-)......) and I have been reading this forum for years (love it), but this is my first post so take it easy ;-).........!

Well to start with im going to address the issues with missing personnel in the team this season, like Thorne, Buxton, Martin and Eustace and the impact that had on the team (which was obvious).....How ever its shocking to see that the dismissal of BRYSON is so easy....... The back end of the season saw us lack a controlling midfielder who would harass and get stuck into the opposition, Que Bryson!  Not even mentioning the goals that come with his game!

Our player of the season (twice!!!) who IMO was the missing piece in the play-off final, would have made such a difference this season given a decent run in the team. Of course, injuries and squad form have alot to answer for in terms of Brysons pitch time but it shocks me that so many people are willing to just write him off and get him out of the club!

Surely he must stay and command a first team place?

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