Mostyn6 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Or just for now if going to expand the just 38000 or 39000 for now that would plenty. sadly B4, it's a 'all or nothing' expansion, you cannot do half of the expansion as the stand would be open-ended at one side and the framework would be unsafe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 We sold out every week didn't we when we was in the prem? If we've got a team what can stay there for say 3 seasons then why not. Even thoe we was getting trashed every week still Sold out. I think the big games we could sell it out. The lower teams maybe 38,000 average. This is brought up over and over again, it is totally fantasy stuff... if we went up and stayed in the Premiershite forever we would never sell 38,000 for lower teams as an average..... We would fill a 44,000 seater stadium exactly never....the only chance we would get would be if we gave teams like Manchester United 10,000 tickets, and who honeslty wants that many away fans? The capacity is exactly right for us now, we almost fill it (it wasn't even full for Forest) most weeks and like someone said it is miserable seeing banks of empty seats like we would have most weeks.... Can you imagine when we played Palace or Hull or Swansea or QPR etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Just expand one stand then maybe south stand then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I'm not in an argumentative mood....but you are....as seems to be increasingly the case across the forum. I know you are not a structural engineer because i once asked you. If you remember you were looking for work and - if you had been a structural engineer - then i could have lined you up for a job. We'll leave it at that. then you'll remember the company I'd been made redundant from specialised in the subject matter I am discussing here, the foundations, and that same company installed these very foundations, as well as many others like Wembley etc. I am only argumentative because I believe* (know) I am right on this issue. We can leave it at that if you like. You don't have to have a certificate to have knowledge of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 [quote name="Mostyn6" post="751645" timestamp="1422616548" there are sections outside of the stadium where you are underneath the stand, this would just build back further as it went higher, and you'd have some NEW pillars (as I said in first post) further away from the concourse/pitch, but on the existing but currently redundant foundation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Just expand one stand then maybe south stand then it doesn't work that way mate. What you see as two separate things (East Stand and South Stand) are constructively the same structure I think. If I recall, it will be either both have to happen (as one) or nothing. Although I'm not 100% of the intricate details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 ....which is what i said....."new columns" You are suggesting that the existing structures and substructures have been designed to take the additional load. The other factors i mentioned would also have to be met. And it is a major job. Not easy. not quite Ramnut, I said the foundations are in place. It would be a mixture of unbolting certain framework, installing new pillars (not extending as you said), but then linking the two. In simple terms. If I recall, although not sure, there would be no internal work, it would all be from above and outside, as it the cantilever roofing system. The new stairways and seating would be supported by a combination of new load-bearing pillars (onto currently redundant pile-caps and foundations) and the current external structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaftesbury Street Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 When you think in the prem most away allocations are sold out, in our case 3k, along with our current season tickets only being 1000 left, the general sale will go in a snap. An extra 2-4k doesn't seem that far off IMO. And didnt they say in the world cup bid they had multiple options they could explore, expanding from to 36, 38,40 and 44? A few of seasons in the prem and it's a no brainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 This is a vintage forum thread. After establishing in the very first reply to the OP that this is never going to happen and it doesn't matter, we still decided to have an argument about it afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Lets try again. To extend the stands it is necessary to decapitate the existing columns and build new columns further back - as i said. If these columns are to support the roof then either a new roof structure is required, or - if the existing structural components are to be re-used - then the roof would not project as far forward. If the existing columns are to become internal to support a higher roof - re-using the existing components - then the existing columns will have to be extended in height. Extending a column whilst maintaining its structural integrity is not easy. ....and of course you could extend just one stand, but i'm getting bored of this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 this is the best photo of the columns i can find at the moment..... You can see the stepped precast concrete tiered deck units sitting on white angled beams connecting to the external circular columns at the height of the horizontal tie. Had there been a designed joint in the column at that height which allowed for the top of the column to be removed in the future, then things would have been a bit easier.....but there isn't. So to extend the tiered precast units further out, the top of the column has to be cut off. New inclined steel beams have to be connected to the top of this existing decapitated column possibly using the existing plate connections, if these have been designed to accommodate the necessary loading. The new beams would extend to new columns outside the existing line of the stadium. The roof is buggered. Some of the components could possibly be re-used at the top of the new columns but if the roofline of the eaves is to be maintained, then new roof beams would be required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Of course its possible. They will have the plans in some cupboard somewhere left from the WC2018/2022 bid. But. I wouldn't want a situation like Blackburn where the ground is half empty. Sure, it wouldn't drop quite so low as 6000 for a cup game, but the iPride is bad enough to get an atmosphere going, let alone with an extra 6-10k empty seats. Villa is probably the best example - ground holds nearly 43,000. Their average is just shy of 33,000 (or in other words, our max) but it looks half empty at best. The only team in the Premier League where the average is less than 88% of the total capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetness34 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Don't suppose anybody has a link to the 3 pictures referenced in the telegraph (A, B and C)? They aren't on the article but I'd love to see what it COULD look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Of course its possible. They will have the plans in some cupboard somewhere left from the WC2018/2022 bid. But. I wouldn't want a situation like Blackburn where the ground is half empty. Sure, it wouldn't drop quite so low as 6000 for a cup game, but the iPride is bad enough to get an atmosphere going, let alone with an extra 6-10k empty seats. Villa is probably the best example - ground holds nearly 43,000. Their average is just shy of 33,000 (or in other words, our max) but it looks half empty at best. The only team in the Premier League where the average is less than 88% of the total capacity. Blackburn DREAM of a half-empty stadium. It was only 1/6th full for their recent cup game against Premier League opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 is someone in an argumentative mood? Just for my amusement, remind me of what job I do and what jobs I have held previously Ramnut. Structural Engineer, or not I can see the construction of the supporting framework outside of the east and south stand are interchangeable, and if you've noticed or not, there are sections outside of the stadium where you are underneath the stand, this would just build back further as it went higher, and you'd have some NEW pillars (as I said in first post) further away from the concourse/pitch, but on the existing but currently redundant foundation! Guys, I believe the club itself are far from convinced on expansion "feasibility" I conclude this because 1) In World Cup bid we did not even choose the option to simply extend capacity permanently. 2) World Cup bid included a ridiculous option of making the North stand a "super" stand ....stretching right back over the road and up into the sky. Seats at the back would have been so far away from pitch. Reason this was being considered is that it was obviously cheapest method of increasing capacity ......( note the expansion of North stand over the road was going to be temporary ) Why, given some funding opportunities, were our plans back then not simply along lines of "we built IPro to be expanded, now lets expand the way we envisaged" One of the expansion plans did mention a higher ring all way around North, east and South Stands ........but this was not preferred choice of the club. So whilst all things are feasible, cost dictates. So to an extent ground was always suitable for expansion, merely because it had the space surrounding it ( and as we never even filled in two corners ...which was lame in the extreme. To me in looked a pretty naff ground until all enclosed ) The eventual filling in costs would have been far cheaper if undertaken in main build. Cost again would have been a reason for the delay. The fact our ground can be expanded, is only relevant if the costs stack up. What do you guys think it would cost to increase the capacity by 11,000 ? I would have thought at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 This is probably an unpopular opinion, but why should we be falling over ourselves to accommodate "fans" who will apparently only deign to support us at Premiership level? Obviously from the club's point of view they wouldn't care if people only bought season tickets to see the Man United game so long as they paid up, but it winds me up when "lifelong" Derby fans who I've never seen before crawl out of the woodwork for playoff games or premiership football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 it doesn't work that way mate. What you see as two separate things (East Stand and South Stand) are constructively the same structure I think. If I recall, it will be either both have to happen (as one) or nothing. Although I'm not 100% of the intricate details. One option, favoured from memory by Glick et al at the time ......was the massive expansion of the North Stand .......to hold a ridiculous amount. Appreciate that idea was to be temporary, but they had plans to just take that stand back and roof just hook inot it. These just were nt drawings, they were professionally produced. Reason they favoured temp stand for Word Cup only lead me to believe stadium expansion as we would wish to see (North, ease, South height jointly raising was going to cost a lot of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knabby crackers Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 In his interview with Radio Derby this week Sam Rush said there was no plan in place to extend the stadium capacity in the forseeable future, even if we are promoted this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 This is probably an unpopular opinion, but why should we be falling over ourselves to accommodate "fans" who will apparently only deign to support us at Premiership level? Obviously from the club's point of view they wouldn't care if people only bought season tickets to see the Man United game so long as they paid up, but it winds me up when "lifelong" Derby fans who I've never seen before crawl out of the woodwork for playoff games or premiership football. Very salient point - An extra 11,000 seats ........used at most 50% of time in a decent Premiership campaign. ( ie average gate of 38,500 in a ground holding 44,000 ) 11,000 x 50% x 19 games x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It's not even been full regularly this season. Has it been filled more than once? It's the right size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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